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The Grand Debate: Muadh Khan v xs11ax

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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 06:55
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Off topic,but what is Qi they are talking about ? Bad air,I assume ? Looks like it has many type,like it mentions Lung Qi,defensive Qi,ascending and descending etc...
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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 07:26
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Quote:
In traditional Chinese culture, qi or ch'i is believed to be a vital force forming part of any living entity. Qi translates as "air" and figuratively as "material energy", "life force", or "energy flow". Qi is the central underlying principle in Chinese traditional medicine and in Chinese martial arts. The practice of cultivating and balancing qi is called qigong.

Believers of qi describe it as a vital energy, the flow of which must be balanced for health. Qi is a pseudoscientific, unverified concept, which has never been directly observed, and is unrelated to the concept of energy used in science (vital energy is itself an abandoned scientific notion).


Is there any mention of such a concept in the quran and hadith?
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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 08:52
xs11ax wrote:
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I am not a scholar so even if it is mentioned I may not be aware of it.In my knowledge it is not mentioned....

But then,if it is a purely material thing and have nothing to do with Din or akhira,it is not necessary that it should have been mentioned in Quran and Hadeeth.

From what you have written,it is difficult to interpret it in light of Din,rather some Sufi concepts may be similar to it,and even those Sufi,s describe it as a ‘finding’ not ‘Din’.

I am sure our uluma would have certain criteria based on the spirit of Quran and Hadeeth to judge such things and give fatwa accordingly...

Wallaho alam
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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 09:12
ALIF wrote:
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I'm not asking if the science behind qi energy is mentioned. But whether the energy itself is mentioned or alluded to in some way. The human body is mentioned. The human soul is mentioned. But what is this qi energy? Is it part of the body? Is it part of the soul? Is it a bit of both? Or is it something completely different?

Disclaimer: Some people take my questions and musings to be a challenge, argument, debate, scepticism etc. In some cases they are not. They are just questions to seek answers by which I can learn. I am very open to the concept of qi energy and the concept of acupressure/accupunture. Just last week I was reading about how the medical scientific community has discovered that by manipulating the vagus nerve with a modified TENS machine an immunity response can be manipulated in the intestines. This sounds just like acupressure/acupuncture to me.
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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 09:17
xs11ax wrote:
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I understand your question but I don’t exactly know the details of what this Qi thing is,the only little knowledge i have on the subject is the one you so kindly provided through your post :)

So let us both wait for someone else to answer it for us :p
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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 09:45
I know about Qi (Chi) from Martial Arts and Wireless Charging :)

But here is a brief explanation by an unknown brother (Masjid Ahlis-Sunnah wal-Jama'ah - Jamica, NY (11/29/2016))
Halalified YouTube Audio
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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 10:13
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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If it's all conjecture, then please explain how it is done properly.
bint e aisha wrote:
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abu mohammed wrote:
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Muadh wrote:
The Sunnah is always explicit and clear.

Not everything is crystal clear! Not everything makes sense. We can't use logic to explain many things from Hadith. If Hadith were that clear then we would not need Fuqaha.

Please explain how it is done properly.
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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 10:15

ALIF wrote:
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Human biology is agreed upon and universal. “Some of the exercises in Islamic Tasawuff” and rituals in other spiritual aspects are very similar (or even exactly the same).

The (positioning of) Lataif in the Naqshabndi SilSila are very similar to what some of the Hindus practise.

If you read about the Lataif, you are supposed to practise and return (energy) forwards and backwards…It is “Chi” in Chinese or “Shakti” in Hindia

The breathing exercises in the Naqshbandi SilSila (Pas Anfas) are used by Russian Spetsnaz (Special forces) and the west knows it as straw breathing.

The Muraqaba in the Naqshbandi SilSila is known as meditation (in the East and West).

The CRITICAL and FUNDAMENTAL difference is that in Islam we do it for the sake of Allah Ta’ala and while developing relationship with Allah Ta’ala.

When you remove Allah Ta’ala from the equation and perform these exercises then you are inviting Shaytaan and Jinnat to take the vacuum and this is exactly what happens in Advance forms of Tai’chi and to monks etc…They are clearly possessed by Shaytaan.

The point which  nobody in this thread is grasping is that when you are affected by Jinn/Black Magic there are others (even Non-Muslims) who can detect alien presence or interference in your body, cure may not be Sunnah sanctioned or Shariah-approved but Acupressure (and/or other systems of medicine) can equally detect Sehr/Nazar etc.

When someone reverts of Islam their DNA does not change!


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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 11:02
MashaAllah,very informative
JazakAllah khaira
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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 11:05
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
When you remove Allah Ta’ala from the equation and perform these exercises then you are inviting Shaytaan and Jinnat to take the vacuum and this is exactly what happens in Advance forms of Tai’chi and to monks etc…They are clearly possessed by Shaytaan.


So what criteria do we use to determine if the practitioner has removed Allah from the equation and is being lead astray by shaytaan and jinnat or not?
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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 11:33

xs11ax wrote:
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We are still on Phase 1 of the discussion.

You are looking for a “practising Brother for Cupping”.

  1. I accept that you “may think” that practising equates to excellence in delivery of Service
  2. I accept that you “may wish” to spend your money on practising Muslims
  3. I accept that there may be “Barakah” at the hands of practising Muslims

I am still looking for a technical reason for your choice, either from medical or Islamic point of view as to why you need a “practising Brother” for cupping.

I am claiming that Nabi (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) referred a Sahabi (RA) to the best known physician of a particular disease and he was “Non-Muslim”, nowhere in the compendium of Qur’aan and Sunnah it commands you to look for a “practising Brother” for medical advice.

I am saying that you have the “personal choice” but not an “Islamic obligation or necessity” of any kind.

You can give your technical or Islamic reason OR say that it is my personal choice (and in that case we don’t have a debate).

The reason I am asking is technical expertise does not equate to Islamic practise they are two separate issues when it come to cupping. Simply put, a brother trusted by you may take a weekend cupping course and be ready for cupping in 1 week BUT NO WAY will he be as good as someone who has been doing it for 15 years regularly and frequently.

By placing this condition (instead of looking for the best practitioner)  you are restricting your choice. I other words, you are willing to drive 200 miles to get to someone who has weekend training in cupping instead of someone who is an expert with 15 years of experience in delivering quality of care.

It is your personal choice but I am going out of my way to point out that you have turned your religious into Judaism. Islam does not place any such restrictions on treatment IF it is indeed treatment which you need.

  1. You have made an assumption that you are affected by a certain issue
  2. You have then made an assumption that a certain form of treatment works
  3. You have then made an assumption that this treatment can only come from a certain practitioner with certain aspects (other than his primary expertise).

To top it all, you are also admitting that you are not an expert in this area so you will not be able to judge whether the treatment is needed, viable or even effective.

I also gave you a practical example that even in acupressure, they talk about detection of Black Magic/Nazar because the biology of human body is universal, unless you think that bodies of Muslims are different in some way.

We are not discussing Ruqya yet, we are still on cupping.

P.S: I am still baffled.
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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 11:50
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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A brother once wrote on a forum:
Quote:
Jinns live in the blood and hijama sucks it and causes them pain. They eventually give up after a few sessions.

Is that correct?
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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 12:13
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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 13:47

bint e aisha wrote:
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abu mohammed wrote:
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 Removal of Jinn or Blackmagic is based on the experience of practitioners. That is why here is no such thing as complete “end to end” Qu’raan and Sunnah process.

A medical practitioner develops experience with each passing treatment and as long as the method does not contradict the Qur’aan and Sunnah, it is acceptable in Islam.

A person who is not familiar with the illness or treatment usually judges the treatment by the “strangeness of the method” rather than its compliance (or lack of contradiction to Qur’aan and Sunnah) and efficacy.

For example, burning chilli and smoking the patient may be strange but may not contradict Qur’aan and Sunnah and may also be effective.

The scope and the matter is vast.

However, majority of the patients seeking treatments for BalckMagic/Nazar/Jinns are not affected by these matters. They have just convinced themselves that they are and since the people whom they are going for treatment (are running a business) they also convince them.

Many people suffer from psychological trauma, medical conditions etc with symptoms which manifest themselves as such.

Many Muslims suffer from relationship and family issues and these get blamed on Jinn and Black Magic.

Mental health issues are a big taboo in our culture and it is equated to being STUPID. Our Ulama regularly give Bayans that depression can be cured by Dhikr so Muslims convince themselves that if they are not getting cured (of depression) then the problem is with them (in not being regular or not being attentive etc)…In Women, depression may be a hormonal issue and NOTHING to do with Dhikr, they are practising Sisters who suffer from depression when they are regular in Tahajjut.

They then go from cupping to cupping and Ruqya to Ruqya claiming that “Medicine has no cure so it must be something Jinn or Black Magic” related.

On a large scale, Muslim community in the west may speak English but they are still not very knowledgeable about medicine. Our Ulama openly mock Doctors and treatments in their Bayans all the time so people are indoctrinated.

I am not saying that science or medicine has answers or cures to everything but I am saying neither does cupping!

We are not Jews or Christians, we are Muslims! This means that our Deen gives us a balanced outlook on everything (including science), when you deal with fundamental Christians and Orthodox Jews you will know what I am talking about.

In the past, our Ulama were aware of science and medicine (Hikmat), TODAY our Ulama are not aware of most things (including Fiqh let along other things) so we should stick to all-rounder balanced Ulama such as Mufti Mangera (HA) who at least know what they are talking about OR can at least access information to be able to tell you.

Many British born Deobandi Ulama DO NOT even know the difference between a Credit Card and America Express so how do you expect them to guide you on medical treatment? People merely follow what they see in front of them.

When they see Maulana Bilal Bawa (HA) openly saying on the stage that he has been in England since 1969 and does not speak a word of English, people think that this is something to be proud of!

This sort of attitude has nothing to do with Islam.

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#60 [Permalink] Posted on 14th February 2019 14:20
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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That was not the answer to my question but I agree with what you've said.

Bayans like this make me wonder where do they get these things from :facepalm:
Halalified YouTube Audio


Edit: Is the audio working?

Authorizer Edit: Link update
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