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The Grand Debate: Muadh Khan v xs11ax

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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 16:09
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I'd rather go to a Muslim mechanic to fix my car in the hope that he has taqwa and will benefit from earning additional halal income. Whereas if I go to a non Muslim mechanic, he could lie (not that a Muslim would not lie, even though a Muslim cannot Lie), he could cheat me, he could be drinking a beer inside my car and so on.... So before a mechanic extracts oil from my car, I'd rather he be clean, inwardly and outwardly :):):)
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 16:10

abu mohammed wrote:
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Already understood and admitted.


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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 16:16

Offtopic: Test for Black Magic/Evil Eye

Human body is anatomically universal and it is affected in the same way whether you are a Hayati or a Mamati. If you can touch and feel a pulse at point LI4, it is possible that you are affected by Black Magic.

tcmpoints.com/large-intestine/li4-hegu/

Nothing to do with being a “Hayati Deobandi” or “practising” to have the pulse or to be able to feel the pulse, it is the same location and same symptom.

Offtopic: Cure for Black Magic/Evil Eye

  1. Perform Sunnah Ruqya
  2. Put pressure on SP1 with the Yaqeen and firm belief that Allah Ta'ala will provide a cure, Insha'Allah

www.steve-woodley.co.uk/?content=pointsearch&point=Sp-1

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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 16:18
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Firstly he has an assumption that he is afflicted with Black Magic etc and I am sure that he has reasons but there is no certainty in the matter to begin with.

Correct i have an assumption. Correct there is no certainty. But my assumption is not baseless.


Secondly, he has made an assumption that cupping has the cure for it

I'm not assuming that cupping is a cure, but I have been lead to believe that it can be part of the cure by first diagnosing it using cupping and other means.

Thirdly, he has made an assumption that only a practising “Muslim” would know about it

I don't know if non practicing Muslims or even if non Muslims can diagnose and cure outside influence. I know that many people are charlatans and I know that some people use the wrong means to diagnose and cure outside influence. I wish to avoid such people. The only way I know how is to judge them by the light of the quran and sunnah and take into consideration their Deen both outwardly and inwardly and also seek opinions about them through others who are also practicing and might know them on a personal level.

Fourthly, based on 1,2 & 3 only practising “Muslim” can cure it.

Again I don't know if non practicing Muslims can diagnose or cure it, but it's important that the practitioner is mindful of Allah so I can hope he doesn't use wrongful means and doesn't use his position to manipulate and take advantage. I know it's difficult to determine the sincerely of others, but we can only use whatever means we have hand and that begins by using the quran and sunnah as the main criteria.
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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 16:23
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
Off to a meeting...


Off to a meeting.
Heh heh...sure Khan Saheb.
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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 16:55
Quote:
I'm not assuming that cupping is a cure, but I have been lead to believe that it can be part of the cure by first diagnosing it using cupping and other means.

Rasulullah صلى الله عليه وسلم is reported to have said:

“Cupping is the most helpful procedure for human beings to cure themselves.” (Sahih al-Bukhari 5357)

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allah have mercy on him) mentions that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) was cupped on his head when he was afflicted with magic and that it is from the best of cures for this if performed correctly. [Zad al-Ma’ad (4/125-126)]
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 17:31
Quote:
if performed correctly.
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 17:39
Is there a way to perform it which would enable it to be classed as "performed correctly"? A way that is obtained from ahadith and sunnah. Or more accurately, are there incorrect ways of performing it that are practiced by today's hijama practitioners?
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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 17:50
fod1083 wrote:
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Allah and His Prophet (saw) know best. The scholars of Hadith would be able to answer that.

But, as an example - we know that there are Sunnah dates and Sunnah points. Certain methods might be used today that were not used back then - so already a difference in method, i.e. fire vs suction. Faith or the lack of faith as we see in the Hadith of Honey. So there are so many things that can or should be taken into consideration. One of these I asked about for the sake of asking www.muftisays.com/forums/86-qa-support--fiqh/8573-hijama-...

Performing Salah correctly also means many things. There are prerequisites of Salah, same for Dua's and so on for them to be accepted.
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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 18:08
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Whereas if I go to a non Muslim mechanic, he could lie (not that a Muslim would not lie, even though a Muslim cannot Lie),

This sentence really amused me!
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 18:39
bint e aisha wrote:
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It's a sad fact of life.

Imagine if the scholars deducted that if a Muslim lied, he would no longer remain a Muslim because the Hadith states that a Muslim cannot lie!
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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 19:00

bint e aisha wrote:
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I seem to be loosing my mind :P

I thought somewhere in some post I asked for explicit evidence that cupping is cure for Black Magic etc.

Did I reply or did not post it directly to you?I am Sorry for repeating this because I cannot seem to find my own post.

I asked for explicit evidence of cupping being the cure for Black Magic and not implicit that it is “a cure for many illnesses”. You responded with:

Rasulullah صلى الله عليه وسلم is reported to have said:

“Cupping is the most helpful procedure for human beings to cure themselves.” (Sahih al-Bukhari 5357)

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allah have mercy on him) mentions that the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) was cupped on his head when he was afflicted with magic and that it is from the best of cures for this if performed correctly. [Zad al-Ma’ad (4/125-126)]

Did I ask you for an explicit statement or am I imagining things? :P

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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 19:13
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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You didn't ask me anything. I didn't quote you. I quoted from xs11ax and my post was not directed towards you at all.

Maybe you wrote something but forgot to post?
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 20:11
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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By the way we have explicit evidence that cupping is the best procedure to cure any disease but no such evidence can be found about acupuncture which you've categorically declared to be the cure for black magic.
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 13th February 2019 22:21

bint e aisha wrote:
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Ok so that settles it, I thought that I was loosing my mind…It actually never got posted.

There is no explicit evidence of cupping curing Black Magic, it is implied. Same can be applied to Honey and many others things.

bint e aisha wrote:
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Its not acupuncture and I was making a different point that human biology is the same and symptoms are similar and you don't need to be a "Muslim" or a "Hayati" to figure out that something is wrong with the human body.

abu mohammed wrote:
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All conjecture...

fod1083 wrote:
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All based on experience and conjecture.

The Sunnah is always explicit and clear.

Many items and methods are told to be a cure, starting with:

Loading Qur'aan Verse

Then eat from all the fruits and follow the ways of your Lord laid down [for you]." There emerges from their bellies a drink, varying in colors, in which there is healing for people. Indeed in that is a sign for a people who give thought.

So we have people selling all kinds of Honey and specific methods and properties etc.


 
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