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Playing the difference of opinion games

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 29th December 2018 06:13
I find it amazing that when it comes to minority opinions (or rather, aberrations?) Many ulema today tell us to respect difference of opinion.

This has become the perfect tool for shaytaan and the nafs to corrupt the ummah and the individual.

In an age when people are given to whims and following nafs, they can now happily listen to music, celebrate Christmas, draw animate pictures, attend freemixed gatherings and essentially pick and choose any minority opinion (aberration) they are attracted to and no one can say anything because we are to respect differences of opinion.

So, are these same scholars that are letting people run rampant in following their whims, by telling everyone else to respect these minority differences of opinion, also going to tell us to respect the minority opinions of things like suicide bombings and temporary marriage (Sunni opinion).

Usually, the same scholars have 0 respect for these other minority opinions. It would certainly make them loose popularity if they showed any respect in these opinions.

Hypocrisy? Double standards?

Or are they simply slaves to the current political narrative and will pick and choose which minority opinions should be "respected" and which shouldn't?

Whatever the case, this whole difference of opinion games is causing much corruption.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 11:33
salam

tbh i personally not come across any mainstream scholars justify music, freemixing and the rest by saying its a minority opinion. most openly say its haraam. only modernists and some goofy soofy type will tell people its ok because a minority has allowed it

as for suicide bombing im neither for it or against it but what i do say is let those scholars who are involved in that effort be the ones to decide. i dont see what right a scholar sitting in a comfortable home and masjid has to comment on issues he hasn't spent a single second in,
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 14:59
There is a huge difference between suicide bombings in civilian areas and martyr attacks against enemy forces in the battlefield.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 17:41
If drawing animate pictures is allowed in the Maliki madhab, then can it be considered a minority opinion?

I don't think scholars openly say "free mixing" is allowed. I think it is more to do with the definition of free mixing. Some make it seem the mere presence of women at a masjid is free mixing, while others make it seem that free mixing is only when 2 people are alone in a closed room.

Do many scholars accept taking part in Christmas activites? From what I read on the Halloween issue, if any do allow it, it would probably have to do with Christmas loosing its religiosity and just becoming some kind of commercial holiday, which isn't the case in many places as yet. BTW where I am Halloween isn't really celebrated, and Christmas is definitely a Christian festival.

As for Music, I haven't really read much on it, so I can't comment.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 18:10
mkdon101 wrote:
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Perhaps I didn't explain clearly, but you missed my point entirely.

They don't justify music (for example).

They will say it's haraam, but they will add on things like don't tell anyone off for listening to it i.e RESPECT it BECAUSE a minority opinion exists.

The problem I am pointing out is you can dig up minority opinions for almost anything (some examples already given), so what's left to "enjoin good and forbid evil"

Music, don't forbid it
Drawing animate objects, don't forbid it
Freemixed gatherings, don't forbid it
Supporting tyrant rulers, don't forbid it
Fashion hijabs, don't forbid it

Etc

All because some minority opinion can be dug up, and we should "respect" differences of opinion, so a lot of people are taking advantage of this and following their whims because they know if anyone tried to advise them with regards to it they can simply turn around and say things like "there is a scope for difference of opinion and we should respect difference of opinions"

But in reality they just justifying picking and choosing to follow their whims.

All these things then have further disastrous knock on effects, making matters for the ummah even worse.

And I don't know how anyone could have not heard of these things from "mainstream" scholars or public figures that have large influence.

Regarding celebrating Christmas, mufti menk himself recently tweeted with regards to it to respect difference of opinion.

Here is another example from shaikh Faraz rabbani and co about music, after showing how music is haraam, they essentially say " don't forbid it" i.e let people listen to it because a minority option exists. So of course many people happily start listening to music, knowing no one should forbid it.

seekershub.org/ans-blog/2012/12/25/listening-to-islamic-s...

So the nafs of people can take over now as everything is subject to difference of opinion and everybody else should respect all these minority opinions and fitna grows.

You also completely missed the point about suicide bombings, but I'll leave that for now.

And same point about animate objects from concerned.

You all seem to be missing the point I'm making and focusing on individual examples I've given. I hope I explained the point better this time round.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 18:12
When the salaf used to choose between stronger opinion of other madhabs they would choose what was prohibited. For instance if Hanafi fiqh allows touching your wife after doing wudhu and Shafi madhab disallows it then they would choose the Shafi opinion to have more taqwa and extra care. Difference of opinion in those times didn't mean to pick and choose the most relaxed opinions and make shariah a joke.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 18:21
That answer on seekers hub highlights the problem I'm trying to point out.

Hers another example.

Now, we all know that mufti menk probably would NOT celebrate Christmas.

twitter.com/muftimenk/status/1077489790961049601?s=19

But every Muslim celebrating Christmas loved this tweet of his because now, no one can tell them off for celebrating Christmas because they should learn to "respect difference of opinion."

Like I said, you can't forbid anything anymore, cos a minority opinion can be dug up for almost anything, and we should respect everything, not forbid.

So even LGBT can now say to us "respect difference of opinion"

It doesn't matter whether a mainstream scholars says it or not, the point is this mentality of always "respecting any opinion" no matter what is being developed by mainstream scholars and everyone else is taking advantage of it.
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 18:25
sipraomer wrote:
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You are correct, but that's what I'm pointing out, now it's different, now difference of opinion is being used to make a joke of Sharia and give the perfect excuse for people to follow their whims, even for minority opinions. I hope the above 2 examples are enough to show what I'm trying to highlight.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 18:27
Quote:
Regarding celebrating Christmas, mufti menk himself recently tweeted with regards to it to respect difference of opinion.


I think you have misunderstood Mufti Menk. I did not get the impression he was speaking of difference of opinion among Muslims. I think he was speaking of difference of opinion among Muslims and Non Muslims regarding celebrating Christmas. He also said have the best opinion regarding what he said and don't assume the worst meaning.

In a video, he was allowing converts to use the occasion of Christmas to spend time with family, once their intentions are not to celebrate Christmas.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 18:30
As for Music, have you actually researched the topic properly before passing judgement? If not maybe you should seek explanation from those who say it can be considered a difference of opinion, before condemning it totally.

At the end of the day, every difference of opinion would have to be considered separately.

If not, what is your proposed solution?
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 18:53
Concerned, as usual you have missed the point.

I even said specifically don't focus on individual examples, as they are being used to highlight a point, not to discuss the ruling on each point, and still you want me to look into music, you want to look into animate objects. What the heck is wrong with you man.

I also knew before I posted this topic that I was assured of a response from you as you are a prime example of someone who keeps referring back to difference of opinion for anything and everything to justify it.

Did you even read the last paragraph on the seekershub Answer. That is just one example. It opens the floodgates to people to follow their whims.

People should, by and large, be sticking to one madhab, or at least choosing the established opinion of other madhabs if they don't stick to one madhab, but let alone picking and choosing from madhabs, they have now found the perfect excuse to pick and choose any minority opinion they can find that agrees with their nafs because instead of them controlling thier nafs, everyone else should "respect difference of opinion".

You can also try and imterpret mufti menks however you wish. But it was all that was needed by he Muslims who celebrate Christmas to justify themselves.










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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 19:58
Let's try this again in conversion mode, see if I can perhaps make the point i'm trying to highlight better.

Example 1:

Zayd: Happily sitting in car listening to music.

Abdullah: Seeing him, says "brother, music is haraam", and for good measure adds on "the established opinion in all 4 madhabs is that musical instruments are not allowed".

Zayd: "Ah yes, but you do know there's an opinion that exists from Shaykh fulan ibn fulan that says it's permissible? You really need to stop trying to enforce your opinions on me and learn to respect differences of opinion."

Abdullah: "Oh, ok. Sorry to have disturbed your highly knowledgeable self."

Zayd: Continues to openly listen to Music in PUBLIC.

This public act has the effect that it entices others to follow their whims also. Others learn there's a difference of opinion, and so knowing that no one can criticise them, they soon give in to their nafs and choose the minority opinion. Soon the minority opinion that "Music is permissible" becomes normalised, and although is a minority opinion, becomes the majority by the number of people adopting it.

Example 2:

Zayd: drawing a portrait

Abdullah: "brother, do you know that the vast majority have scholars have declared drawing of animate objects to be haraam?"

Zayd: "Ah yes, but you do know there's an opinion that exists from Shaykh fulan ibn fulan, and it's a maliki opinion, that says it permissible? You really need to stop trying to enforce your opinions on me and learn to respect differences of opinion."

Abdullah: "Oh, ok. Sorry to have disturbed your highly knowledgeable self."

Zayd: Continues to draw portraits, and many people find out about it.

This has the effect that it entices others to follow their whims also. Others learn there's a difference of opinion, and so knowing that no one can criticise them, they soon give in to their nafs and choose the minority opinion. Soon the minority opinion that "animate objects are permissible" becomes normalised, and although is a minority opinion, becomes the majority by the number of people adopting it.

Example 3:

Zayd: Happily getting a christmas tree.

Abdullah: Seeing him, says "brother, celebrating christmas is haraam"

Zayd: "Ah yes, but you do know there's an opinion that exists from Shaykh fulan ibn fulan that says it's no longer a religious holiday, it's just secular and therefore permissible? You really need to stop trying to enforce your opinions on me and learn to respect differences of opinion."

Abdullah: "Oh, ok. Sorry to have disturbed your highly knowledgeable self."

Zayd: Continues to get christmas trees every year.

This has the effect that it entices others to follow their whims also. Others learn there's a difference of opinion, and so knowing that no one can criticise them, they soon give in to their nafs and choose that getting christmas trees is permissable. Soon the minority opinion that "it's ok to celebrate the "secular" christmas holiday" becomes normalised, and although is a minority opinion, becomes the majority by the number of people adopting it.

Example 4:

Freemixing, LGBT, and many other sins all catch on, "hey this difference of opinon thing really let's us do what we want. We'll figure out a way of showing some minority opinion if it's interpreted in such and such way, and then they all have to "respect our difference of opinion"

Shaytaan: "jobs a goodun"

----

Does anyone get the problem i'm trying to show? Or do you all still want me to go and research the fiqh of music, and animate objects and suicide bombings.

This is a big problem that has crept into the ummah over the last 20 years. It's essentially what's given rise to the mass adoption of people following their whims and islamically justifying it.





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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 20:34
You are bringing the examples , so I am commenting on them. And in the last post you compared drawing a portrait, which if is the allowed position of the Maliki madhab, can not be compared to LGBTQ!

I am saying each matter would have to be dealt with individually.

There are many other examples which can be used in your scenarios above, except that they would be cases of perfectly valid difference of opinions. E.g. eating shrimp

I guess the question is where do we draw the line, as a line has to be drawn for some differences, as not all differences are valid.


Quote:

People should, by and large, be sticking to one madhab, or at least choosing the established opinion of other madhabs if they don't stick to one madhab, but let alone picking and choosing from madhabs, they have now found the perfect excuse to pick and choose any minority opinion they can find that agrees with their nafs because instead of them controlling thier nafs, everyone else should "respect difference of opinion".


I see what you are saying, so what is the solution?
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 22:35
Basically, why do Ulama have to be politically correct in everything and get away with it.

Nowadays, everyone must please everyone else otherwise u start getting labelled and eventually banned.

Keep the other party happy and u still have an audience
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 30th December 2018 22:38
I read on this forum about picking and choosing something to do with shirk, maybe one of the mods can link it up.
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