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How to Negotiate with Iran?

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 4th January 2020 07:35
ALIF wrote:
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Sub-han Allah, what a beautiful post from more than one year ago.
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Ali Shariati,s appeal to the youth in Iran was used by clerics to their advantage and the moment the 'revolt' succeeded,they started distancing themselves from him and his message...

My request is that please fill in the details because my impression is that these details are not that well known.
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Khomeini was a hardcore Shia extremist , there was no room for intellectual discourse and sophisticated philosophies in his vision for Iran.Those of us who have read his original books may testify that he left no space for compromise between Sunni and Shia.I don't want to mention his views on Qur'an and Sahaba as many will find it nauseating...

I do agree with the assessment of the common Shia disposition. But there is one point that disarms me vis-a-vis late Imam Khomeni. He permitted Shias to pray behind Sunni Imams.
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So,if Iran of today disowns Khomeini and his beliefs,then it may be possible for us to “negotiate”,otherwise we can always hold "talks" for sort of peaceful 'coexistence'...that is about all we can hope for,we do that even with Israel...

I agree.
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It is not that I feel happy about it.We want them to come back to the pre- Khomeini era before we can negotiate. The differences were present between the two of us even then, but generally the limits of a decent argument was not crossed and the majority of Shia were moderates.Khomeini not only increased the gulf between Sunni and Shia,he gave Shia a revolutionary agenda and a road map for political and military domination of Islamic lands. He used the slogan of "handing over the flag to Mahdi" for the revival of the lost glory of the Persian empire.....and the annihilation of those responsible for its destruction : The Arabs

I suppose we can further elaborate on these issues and that will be fruitful.
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So Maripat,I do recognise your good intent...but sadly I don't know how we can bring them back to the fold :(

I am curious about your current assessment of the situation.
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 4th January 2020 15:56
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Mukhtar Masood, Lived through Iranian revolution, and observed the immediate after effects of it, in his book “Lauh e Ayyam”, which is sort of a diary of those days :

“After revolution, came the death anniversary of Ali Shariati, it was obviously expected to be celebrated with passion, sadly that did not happen,a few formal statements, two three articles in the news papers and a few mentions on television, the lack of interest by the new government in him was obvious !

Next year on his death anniversary, the signs of ‘resentment’ against him were clearly visible. Like previous year, people gathered at his house in a small gathering.They had not yet fully settled that ‘revolutionary guards’ arrived and started beating them, including his father, who was said to be injured. The gathering was dispersed”.

(Quote ends)

The 1979 revolution was not made by a homogeneous group of conservative madrasa clerics. It was made by a diverse group of conservatives and Islamic socialists—students, workers, and common people—Khomeini and his group of clerical conservatives took control in the years that followed, consolidating power completely by 1981. This happened for a number of reasons :

1. Khomeini had a stronger base among the traditional shia community than people like Shariati had in any mass segment of society. At once a Muslim philosopher and a socialist, Shariati was a formidable rival of conservative interpretations of Islam; His message was equally focused on the social aspects of Din which could potentially bring a positive change in the living standards of people. In his words: “the enlightened soul is the person who is conscious of his ‘human condition’ in his historical and social setting, and whose awareness necessarily gives him a sense of social responsibility.”

2. Khomeini was a careful politician who managed to endear himself to, or at least to avoid open confrontation with, all the various sides of the opposition. When asked by another cleric to condemn Shariati’s irreverently anti-clerical speeches at the Hussainiya Ershad Madrasa,Khomeini refused, having been well aware of the latter’s popularity. That does not mean that he encouraged the spreading of his message in the people, far from it, Shariati was gradually made irrelevant to the masses.

Shariati passed away in 1977, at the age of 43, he did not see the revolution he guided. Revolution eats its own children first. I have a feeling that if he had lived long enough to see the revolution, he would have had the same fate that Taliqani and Muttahhari had....
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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 6th January 2020 05:54
ALIF wrote:
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Sub-han Allah.

What can I say? With this kind of perspective on the affairs of Ummah I am sure we can make it, our Ummah, aware of her situation and by the Grace of Allah SWT the Ummah can start acting in the right direction. The current scenario is changing rather rapidly but we do have the potential to take care of ourselves.

Muadh Khan let us start designing a programme for the same - to make Ummah aware of itself. Let me tell you we four are already a crowd for this task. Fourth one is sipraomer. And I am not excluding others too.

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 6th January 2020 15:26
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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 6th January 2020 16:14
bint e aisha wrote:
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This is nothing as compared to what Khomeini has written in his books :(
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 6th January 2020 16:18

bint e aisha wrote:
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:( May Allah Ta'ala destory whoever did this!!!

US Government website defaced with messaged cursing the companions of Nabi Muahmmad ﷺ

Youtube Video

www.youtube.com/watch?v=58zNeGf3Cnk

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 6th January 2020 17:42
I need some help !

I was thinking about an interesting phenomena...

Appearances apart, which of the American ‘intervention’ in the region has NOT actually ‘strengthened’ Iran and ‘weakened’ arabs ?

• Attack on Iraq removed Saddam from power and paved the way for a hardline Shia government supporting Iran.

• The civil war in Syria and Iraq gave birth to ISIS (which apparently represented Sunni resentment against Shia atrocities). Their destruction strengthened Iran. The same Qasim Sulemani and Abu Mahdi of Hashd were spearheading the assault against the ISIS

• Taliban were removed from power in Afghanistan, the beneficiary was Iran and the Shia northern alliance

• For the last two months, there were growing protests against the regime of Ayatullahs in Iran. The killing of Sulemani helped rally people around Ayatullah’s once again. He had become an ‘iconic’ figure anyway, sooner or later he had to be disposed off...

Additionally, we all know, Israel has been attacking Hizbullah and Iranian positions in Syria. They have done it multiple time inflicting heavy losses on them. More recently, Israel has been doing the same in Iraq. Why has Iran NOT ‘harshly retaliated’ against Israel—-and why do they have to retaliate NOW.

What is different here ?
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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 6th January 2020 18:45

Hassan Allahyari's directions to the Shi'as: Link

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 7th January 2020 09:01
ALIF wrote:
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Maybe there is some truth in the "conspiracy theory" that Iran is actually on the same side as America and Israel?
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 7th January 2020 09:11
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As you already said, it sounds more like a ‘conspiracy theory’, to be honest :)

But in our history, Shia has always remained a ‘fifth column’ amongst our ranks. I admit that I have a prejudice against them....
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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 7th January 2020 09:37
For the record (especially those who are reading this and are not Muslim)

Qassem Soleimani is NOT a martyr
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 8th January 2020 00:39

08JAN2020: Iran attacks 2 US bases with Surface-to-Surface Missiles

edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/us-iran-soleimani-te...

Pentagon: Iran launches more than a dozen ballistic missiles at 2 Iraqi bases

The Pentagon confirmed that Iran launched missiles at US military and coalition forces in Iraq.

The Pentagon said Iran fired more than a dozen missiles.

"It is clear that these missiles were launched from Iran and targeted at least two Iraqi military bases hosting U.S. military and coalition personnel at Al-Assad and Irbil," Jonathan Hoffman, assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs, said in a statement. 

"We are working on initial battle damage assessments," he added.

The bases, he said, have been on high alert "due to indications that the Iranian regime planned to attack our forces and interests in the region."

"As we evaluate the situation and our response, we will take all necessary measures to protect and defend U.S. personnel, partners, and allies in the region," the Pentagon said.

This is an extremely unIran like move

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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 8th January 2020 01:08
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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This is an extremely unIran like move


Please explain.

Also, we need a dedicated thread for this.

What's the likelihood other countries will get involved?
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 8th January 2020 03:23
xs11ax wrote:
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It was a cosmetic response for domestic audience, using ‘accurate’ missiles to ‘miss’ the target, by hitting the areas devoid of American soldiers, carefully sparing American lives....!

Deliberately missing the areas populated by American soldiers means: face saving plus a step towards de-escalation.

Or may be, the ‘real’ revenge is yet to come, in a more ‘asymmetric’ way, when that would be least expected ?
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 8th January 2020 05:53
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This theory(or conspiracy theory) is popular among those circles of Pakistani Deobandis that are the most hostile towards the Shias, such as the former Sipah e Sahaba and its present day version, the ASWJ.
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