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Dewsbury Ijtema next week

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 24th October 2018 14:39
Many senior Ulama here in the UK accept him as an Ameer as well as referring to him as Hazratji

Many Ulama across the world including Mufti Naeem Saheb and Mufti Zarwali Khan have also spoken out against Darul Uloom Deoband's Fatwa and recently Hazrat Peer Talha Saheb the son of Hazrat Sheikh Zakariyah RA also wrote to them that they should retract the Fatwa as he has done Ruju many times.

Differences in organisations always exist and Ulama of the calibre of Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri, Mufti Azeerur Rahman and Allama Shabbir Ahmed Uthmani left Darul Uloom Deoband due to certain differences. Many Elders have also left Nizamuddin in the past too especially when an Ameer was selected.

The attacks on Hazrat Maulana Saad Saheb are only strengthening his Imaarat even more and giving him more publicity. I would urge everyone to attend his talks and see the truth with your own eyes. Alhumdulillah many thousands of people did the same last weekend and have become convinced that Dewsbury and Nizamuddin are our Maraakiz as they have always been.

May Allah grant us all understanding and unite the Ummah
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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 24th October 2018 15:09
10

British Muslims:


For nearly two decades, there is resentment amongst Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims against Gujrataees who seem to be running most (Deobandee) Islamic Institutions and movements.

The issue of Maulana Saad has given the Pakistanees and Bangladeshis a hook to galvanise against Gujrataees. There are errors on the side of other Ulama like favouritism and nepotism. Certain Gujratees are guilty of using Tableegh to further their personal and financial gain and there is no doubt in this matter.  Both sides are unwilling to accept their errors and compromise. 

The simple solution is for these Gujarati elders who are guilty of financial embalzzelment over decades is RESIGN and LEAVE but their Ego is not allowing them to do so. They would rather cling to power and destory the work in the process.

Pakistanees and Bangladeshis have genuine complains and grievances which need to be addressed. 

The other party which is backing Maulana Saad is doing it simply out of hereditary consideration i.e. leadership of Tableeghi Jamaat must always remain within a single family and must always be led from a single location (i.e. Nizamuddeen Markaz).

Maulana Saad has made serious, severe and catastrophic mistakes and it is clear as daylight.

Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB) is not well, it is well known and his Bayan at the Dewsbury Markaz this weekend is clear manifestation of him not being well, his Bayan covered:

   
  1. India vs Pakistan wars
  2. Shia
  3. Qadiyanees
  4. Afghanistan Jihad
  5. The issue of Israel and its occupation of Masjidul-Aqsa
  6. The 1979 siege of Masjiul-Haram
  7. Incidents regarding two previous Prime Ministers of Pakistan General Ayub Khan and General Ziaul-Haq

It is clear to any sane, balanced, fair-minded individual that his Bayan was not coherent and certainly had less to do with Tableeghi Jamaat as would be expected in an Ijtema. This is not putting down Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB), his contributions to the Deen or his rank, stature or knowledge. This Bayan is available for people to listen to it, themselves.

90% of those seated on the stage during the Ijtema either had disagreements with Hafiz Patel (RA) or didn’t participate in the work OR don’t participate even now.

These are facts which cannot be disputed.

However, we (as Muslims) are under the punishment of Allah due to our sins. We are into “Hazrat-Worship” where we are offended and equate disagreement with our Hazrats to blasphemy towards Nabi (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam).  Then we have a number of people who simply suffer from serious Ego problems and want attention. A Muslim is supposed to be fair, just and equitable even when it comes to his own family. You will defend and follow the errors of people until you "may be" thrust face down into the fire of Jahannum. Don't disrespect people, don't abuse people, be silent, leave the gathering if you have to BUT don't defend what the body of Ulama and your heart and mind understands and knows to be not the truth.

We blame Donald Trump but we (as Muslims) have become equally partisan and present facts which suit our narrative instead of being able to look at the whole picture. If our Nafs (ego) was not an issue, we would sit down with someone if we are unable to get to the bottom of issues and ask for help. But we also seek help from those who are incompetent or biased just like us. If someone wishes to know the truth about Maulana Saad, the answer is not to watch all the videos in his support OR to join a WhatsApp group of his supporters.

Some people genuinely lack intelligence to grasp facts such as the Muftisays brother who tweets in support of Maulana Asaad, he is simply unable to grasp simple facts like 2 + 2 =4

It is the same with Peer Zulfiqar or any other Hazrats. People will come here to defend their Hazrat regardless of looking at the issue. Is it permissible for Peer Zulfiqar to be in touch with Na-Mehram women and HAS HE NOT given Tawajjuh to Na-Mehram women? Yes Or No?

Maulana Saad has a catalogue of errors based on which Darul-uloom Deoband (a collective group of Muftees) have raised objections. They then looked at his supposed retractions, analysed it and still; have objections.

This triumphs the individual position of Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB) no matter what his Shaykh DID or DID NOT tell him 35-40 years ago. That MAY or MAY NOT have been true 35-40 year ago but DID Allah Ta’ala promise that Maulana Saad will remain in the same positon and in the same spiritual state for the rest of his life?

The ONLY argument people have with regards to Maulana Saad are:

  1. How dare you disagree with Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB)?
  2. Do you know for how many years has he taught Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB)?
  3. Do you know how Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB) has served the Deen of Allah Ta’ala?

This is FALSE because the argument is not about Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB) its about Darul-uloom Deoband and just about every major Darul-uloom in the world versus Maulana Saad (HA).

It is entirely possible that reality or facts are hidden from a singular individual and Allah Ta’ala has not made the matter clear. My mother is convinced that after Brexit nobody will be allowed to land on Heathrow Airport? Is that a fact? Does she stop being my mother? Do we justify what she firmly believes it to the rest of the world?

Then we have blatant inflation of numbers about Dewsbury Ijtema. The Blackburn Ijtema was EASILY 4-5 times bigger then Dewsbury Ijtema IF numbers are to be considered. Every (British) Darul-uloom was represented at Blackburn Ijtema and students served the guests, did it happen at Dewsbury? The Jamaats which went out of Blackburn were MUCH GREATER in numbers then Dewsbury….IF numbers and participation of Ulama and Mashykh is the factor then Dewsbury was a DISMAL FAILURE! If these are the criteria of success then don’t twist facts but look at the facts in their original format since facts do not lie!

Truth is a light which Allah Ta’ala ignites in the heart and NOTHING can change the minds of ego drive biased people. People reject Islam based on ego alone so Maulana Saad issue is nothing BUT as taught to us by HazratJee Maulana Ina’aamul Hasan (RA) wake up in the middle of the night and cry to Allah Ta’ala for guidance and for you to see the light.I know that for some people it is their EGO and they are simply promoting this issue because of EGO and not out of sincerity.

Finally, let’s discuss the issue of upliftment, when you visit the ISNA (mixed gender event) being around 5000 Muslims will give you a boost and you can see review after review and Interview after Interview stating that.

P.S: I am not implying that Maulana Saad or Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB) need guidance so DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS! I am saying that it is entirely possible for Allah Ta’ala to not reveal the full facts to a few individuals. Sunnah tells us to have the best of intentions of our elders BUT not blatantly and blindly defend everything  they stand for in opposition to clear and manifest facts.

Whenever you are confused about issues, fall into prostration and cry to Allah Ta’ala to open your heart and mind to the truthand not go from one place to another to read more and more. Truth is the divinelight of Allah Ta’ala which comes from Allah to those who have TALAB (genuinedesire). This is the Tableegh which our elders in Nizamudden taught us and notthe Tableegh of today which is done on WhatsApp! HazrajJee (RA) and others taught to keep silent on matters which are not the truth BUT don't defend it and we asked about issues like this again and again and again.

For youngsters! As Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) has instructed that when you have physical ailment you go to the best Doctor then you go to another Doctor and then another Doctor. If your heart and your soul is confused sit down with Ulama and discuss each and every aspect of it and dissect this issue in excoriating detail but seek a cure to your misunderstanding.

THIS IS NOTHING! TOMORROW DAJJAL IS COMING. WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN CONFUSION IS 100 TIMES MORE? THERE WILL BE ULAMA WHO WILL ENDORSE DAJJAL SO WHAT WILL YOU DO? DEFEND AND FOLLOW DAJJAL?

P.P.S: For the fair minded I am not equating Maulana Saad or Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB) of being confused about Dajjal at all, neither am I saying that they will ask you to follow Dajjal, I am making a point. For those whose heart and mind Allah Ta’ala has sealed, do and assume whatever you wish as Allah Ta’ala will counter your evil machniations.

We are close to the emergence of Dajjal so if you are confused about simple matters and CANNOT defeat your ego when your heart and mind has accepted the truth THEN may Allah Ta'ala protect you when Dajjal emerges because matters will be 100 times worse!!!

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 25th October 2018 11:08
Abumaryam wrote:
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Please see detailed analysis by dr76 and one of the speeches of Moulana Yusuf Motala DB on the below post
"the-khatam-bukhari-of-hazrat-maulana-yousuf-sb-motala-db--maulana-saad-issue.html?p=116982#116982"

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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 26th October 2018 12:57

Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Discussions about this post is occuring in WhatsApp groups:

  1. Its "Muadh" ranting again, ignore;
  2. What's "Muadh" upto now;
  3. Whose opinion is "Muadh" parroting now;
  4. Does "Muadh" representing the views of Blackburn Shura, Dewsbury Markaz, group A or group B.

Anyone can pivot to "Muadh" instead of the issue but remember, the day is coming when Dajjal will emerge and Fintah will be 100 times worse. Will you be able to blame "Muadh" on the day?

Maulana Saad (HA) is a scholar and we should not insult, disparage or disrespect him personally in anyway. Nevertheless, his error and the position of (global) bodies of scholars on the matter is clear, manifest and unambiguous. If you choose to ignore that and go with Maulana A, Shaykh B, Mufti C with their individual positions it will cost you in the Akhira.

Example:

Mufti Zarwali Khan Saheb (HA) is a huge scholar of epic magnitude and knowledge BUT we will NOT follow his opinion on 6 fasts of Shawwal or Strawberry. We will not insult, disparage or disrespect him but we will NOT follow his personal opinion BUT we will follow the opinion of the BODY OF ULAMA.

History of Islam is filled with examples of individuals whom group (or body) of Ulama warned against and some MAJOR ULAMA supported this individual. May Allah Ta’ala have Mercy on all of them (Ameen).

DO NOT play games with your Eemaan. LIVE an upright, honest, truthful and dignifed life.

You will ALWAYS find certain Ulama backing certain positions.

Loyalty:

If we begin to defend individual opinions just out of sheer loyalty, we have a problem. Our loyalty is to Allah, His Rasool (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and ISLAM.

Defend individuals based on your loyalty is to Allah, His Rasool (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and ISLAM.

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 26th October 2018 18:42
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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(salam)

Very true..
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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 26th October 2018 18:54
Abu Umamah wrote:
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(salam)

The letter of Hazrat Maulana Talha sahab (db) is Fake.. his health does not permit him to either read, write or attend any such matters..
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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 26th October 2018 21:16

Abu Umamah wrote:
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I am surprised that nobody has picked up these words by this poster, crazy what this guy is writing:

Many Ulama across the world including Mufti Naeem Saheb and Mufti Zarwali Khan have also spoken out against Darul Uloom Deoband's Fatwa


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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 27th October 2018 13:03
Quote "For nearly two decades, there is resentment amongst Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims against Gujrataees who seem to be running most (Deobandee) Islamic Institutions and movements.
The issue of Maulana Saad has given the Pakistanees and Bangladeshis a hook to galvanise against Gujrataees. There are errors on the side of other Ulama like favouritism and nepotism. Certain Gujratees are guilty of using Tableegh to further their personal and financial gain and there is no doubt in this matter. Both sides are unwilling to accept their errors and compromise.
The simple solution is for these Gujarati elders who are guilty of financial embalzzelment over decades is RESIGN and LEAVE but their Ego is not allowing them to do so. They would rather cling to power and destory the work in the process.
Pakistanees and Bangladeshis have genuine complains and grievances which need to be addressed. "

Does this accusation apply to the Gujerati Community worldwide or just UK?? Is favouritism personal gain, political control etc not evident in the way the Gujerati and Tablighi Business Community (Money Men) worldwide have closed ranks against Maulana Saad and the work affiliated with Nizamudeen Markaz.
Is this not the primary Motive for trying to oust Maulana Saad Sb? and The ilmi Objections and Fatwa DU Deoband being a tool to manipulate public opinion ???

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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 27th October 2018 13:07
Quote "The other party which is backing Maulana Saad is doing it simply out of hereditary consideration i.e. leadership of Tableeghi Jamaat must always remain within a single family and must always be led from a single location (i.e. Nizamuddeen Markaz)."
All the Ameer’s have been chosen through Mashwara – it is maybe coincidental that the Elders chosen to select the Ameer have only considered the Kandhelvis as fit and appropriate.It is no surprise to have Ameers chosen from the Kandhelvi family. Kandhelvi heritage consists of Ilm, Amal ,Juhd and IHYA of DEEN going back to Hazrat AbuBakr Siddique RA.

Quote "Maulana Saad has made serious, severe and catastrophic mistakes and it is clear as daylight.
Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB) is not well, it is well known and his Bayan at the Dewsbury Markaz this weekend is clear manifestation of him not being well, his Bayan covered:
1. India vs Pakistan wars
2. Shia
3. Qadiyanees
4. Afghanistan Jihad
5. The issue of Israel and its occupation of Masjidul-Aqsa
6. The 1979 siege of Masjiul-Haram
7. Incidents regarding two previous Prime Ministers of Pakistan General Ayub Khan and General Ziaul-Haq
It is clear to any sane, balanced, fair-minded individual that his Bayan was not coherent and certainly had less to do with Tableeghi Jamaat as would be expected in an Ijtema. This is not putting down Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB), his contributions to the Deen or his rank, stature or knowledge. This Bayan is available for people to listen to it, themselves."

How is Shaykh Yusuf Motala HA unwell? Is this ailment you know of phsycological, physical ? His Memory seems OK and he looked in good shape Masha’Allah. PS it was also good to see Shaykh Maulana Hashim of Bury and Shaykh Yusuf Tootla of Durban also at the ijtema. Hafizullahu T’aala Alayhim ajmaeen.
Do you imply that his recollection of events is Delusional or fictitious??

I would say his Bayan which was done with time constraints and after a nikah majlis as quite masterful. He spoke of Hazrat Shaykhs fikr ,duas and instruction to him during a time when all the world events mentioned above were unravelling.
He also mentioned the azaab of Allah in this world on those unfortunate people who disrespected Hazrat Madni RA during the fitna at DU Deoband.
Previously he has mentioned events of Hazratji Maulana Yusuf RA and Maulana Haroon’s RA Death, Raiwind Siyaasat and dream of Maulana Umar Palanpuri etc.
Was all this also not true???
Uncle please pull the other one!!!
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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 27th October 2018 13:11
Quote "The ONLY argument people have with regards to Maulana Saad are:
1. How dare you disagree with Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB)?
2. Do you know for how many years has he taught Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB)?
3. Do you know how Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB) has served the Deen of Allah Ta’ala?
This is FALSE because the argument is not about Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB) its about Darul-uloom Deoband and just about every major Darul-uloom in the world versus Maulana Saad (HA).
It is not about every Darul Uloom in the world against Maulana Saad HA."

The Darul Uloom were misled by the publication from Deoband. By having an affiliation to Deoband and believing DU Deoband to be fair and just they accepted everything.
Now that the partisanship of the Shura/ Gujarati/Lobby has become apparent everyone is reconsidering his stance.
Hazrat Maulana Saleemullah Khan RA (letter to Ml Shahid saharanpuri) Shaykh Talha Saharanpuri open support for Ml Saad , (letter to Deoband verified as being written upon his instruction)
Shaykh Salman Saharanpuri rebuttal and answer to Deobandi objections against Maulana Saad Sb with references from Hadeeth, tafsir , Seerah of Sahabah and Malfuzaat of Akabirin.
Mufti Reza SriLanka , Mufti Naval ur Rahman , Shaykh Fazlur Rahman Azmi , Shaykh Yunus Jaunpuri RA and recently Mufti Zarwali Khan and Mufti Naeem.
It was also great to hear about Mufti Abdus Samad Db istiqbal in Blackburn and see Shaykh Ayub Surti DB attend the bayan in Leicester and talk about the issue during his Friday talk.
The above-mentioned list of Deobandi Ulama who do not follow the Shura Narrative is Growing Daily.

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 27th October 2018 13:16
Quote "Then we have blatant inflation of numbers about Dewsbury Ijtema. The Blackburn Ijtema was EASILY 4-5 times bigger then Dewsbury Ijtema IF numbers are to be considered. Every (British) Darul-uloom was represented at Blackburn Ijtema and students served the guests, did it happen at Dewsbury? "

Dewsbury was according to (very) conservative estimates 15-20K (I was there). Then according to you Blackburn should be at least 60K which is wishful thinking.
Don’t talk about participation by DU students – I heard at first hand of students expelled from Shura Supporting madrassahs because of their parents siding with Dewsbury.
Students were prevented from participation in Dewsbury by Shura Run Madrassahs and threatened with expulsion.


Quote "The Jamaats which went out of Blackburn were MUCH GREATER in numbers then Dewsbury….IF numbers and participation of Ulama and Mashykh is the factor then Dewsbury was a DISMAL FAILURE! If these are the criteria of success then don’t twist facts but look at the facts in their original format since facts do not lie!"

How many Cash Jamaats went from the Blackburn factory ijtema?? It was summer , holidays around the corner.
Whereas this ijtema in Dewsbury was during the autumn, yet still so many Jamaats have been formed and are gone/going out.
Allah accept all the efforts of everyone with ikhlaas and make it ameans of hidayat and Unity
It seems you are unwell Uncle and not Shaykh Yusuf Motala Sb Hafizahullah T'aala

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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 27th October 2018 13:18

Ashrafi wrote:
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Ashrafi wrote:
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Ashrafi wrote:
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  1. Calm down
  2. Read exactly and precisely what is written including multiple clarifications already given in anticipation to your type of reaction
  3. All your questions are also already answered

Nobody except Allah Ta’ala’s Taufeeq can cut through hatred and poison.

I will continue to monitor this thread and will be happy to answer any questions which are not previously address OR newer questions.

So far all the technical details have been answered in great detail about Dr76 including the statements of Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB) which are being asked by this poster and others.

www.muftisays.com/forums/55-members-research-group/11351-...

P.S: I am explicitly denying that Maulana Saad (HA) Hazrat (Maulana) Yusuf Motala Saheb (DB) have hatred and poison. My statements (of this nature) are not directed towards them at all. …CLEARLY AND UNAMBIGOUSLY



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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 27th October 2018 16:29
The tide is undoubtedly turning. The AS movement is a sinking ship. Jump off before its too late!
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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 27th October 2018 17:16
Lol one ijtema which was smaller than Blackburn and thinking tide is turning.
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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 28th October 2018 06:57
Abu Umamah wrote:
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It is pretty clear to understand, Inspite of such an humongous propoganda and the self proclaimed Ameer coming over , yet the numbers was so low.
An Izthima is a collective process. not a one man show. This was purely a one man show.
Look at the Azamgarh ijthima as its ongoing today or the upcoming Raiwind and Tongi ijthima. You will see that the bayaans are from elders across India ,Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Is Tableeg Jamaat so deprived of senior elders and aalims (who have gone through sacrifices) that on such an occasion a youngster with hardly much experience is required to make bayaan ?
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