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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2018 20:54
You won't find same examples in seerah of sahabas because things get watered down as it passes through generations.

Maulana Salman mazahiri has been made heir to the khanqah of shaykh Zakariya rahmatullahi alayh.

He was given the turban of Haji imdadullah r.a. last week by peer talha to signify succession.

This is the amamah given by hzrt Haji imdadullah ra to hzrt ml khaleel Ahmed saharanpuri. Hzrt saharanpuri gave it to hzrt shaykh zakariya who passed it onto his son, peer Saab hzrt ml Talha. Now it has been handed to hzrt ml salman sb.

Maulana Salman is Maulana saad's samdhi. Now tell me if peer talha's khulafa and mureeds will have same affection towards him like they do for peer talha atm.
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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2018 21:00
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Muad khan, it is pretty obvious that your concerns are genuine and that I am not the person who can match your knowledge or experience. I can only offer what I learned from a few learned people...

The thing which is troubling you is, that we are not using the same methods that were used in Khair ul Quroon,true,but can we also say that we are not trying to reach the same objectives ? I mean, the sincere one,s amongst us ?

Hajj is Fardh in Islam. It used to be done using camels for riding, today we go by air. Camel and aero plane both are ‘tools’, hajj is the objective. Tools do change with time,objectives remain the same.

Jihad is an important component of Din. In old days swords were used for fighting,now guns and tanks are used. The tools have changed,the objective remains the same.

Quran is our life. It was not in print before,now it is printed. Quran is the objective irrespective of wether it is printed or hand written.

Tasawwuf is for tazkia and ehsan. In the time of Khair ul Quroon when potentials were great and barakah was more,tilawat,masnoon adhkar,nawafil, fasting,remembering akhira was enough. Now potentials have decreased so a few additional measures are added,like jahr, dharb lataif etc to increase the effects of dhikr on heart. NONE OF THESE METHODS ARE NECESSARY. These are mere tools. For those who have got good understanding all such measures can be DISCARDED. For those who can diagnose what is wrong with them,if at all...and they have the will to work on themselves, even a Pir is not needed.Such people,though must be exceptionally rare, can do the necessary struggle on their own,can take help from astaghfar where they fail and make loads of dua to Allah to grant them tazkia...

There are many dodgy figures in the field out there. We can only save ourselves from them,if Allah wills, or a few close ones who care to listen to us. We can not clean the whole system...Becoming a Sufi is neither Fardh nor wajib, becoming a good Muslim and a useful human being is ! There are millions of Muslims who don’t even know about tasawwuf, will they all go to jahannam نعوذ بالله ?

Sorry respected brother, it is certainly not my place to be suggesting things to you. I am not even worth sitting close to your shoes.. these few words just crossed my mind. Please forgive my ignorance

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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2018 21:22

Anger & displeasure:

I just spoke to a Shaykh and a dear friend of mine on this forum and he got angry and he is very displeased with me.

He said that you should not write these things on public forum because people think that you are “Anti-Sufi” or “Anti-Tasawuff” when you are not so let’s discuss the matter and whatever I cannot answer, I will take it back to Mashaykh (Arab and Non-Arab) and get you answers from the Qur’aan and Sunnah.

Muadh, clearly state your positions in detail so I and all can understand publicly what you mean because I know that you don’t really mean what you are writing!

You state what you mean and put my comments on Muftisays.

Tasawuff Adhkar and Rituals:

I don’t believe that they are Bid’ah because the objective is to develop a relationship. An example of this would be that learning Qur’aan is the objective and the means to learn the Qur’aan can be through reciting Qaidah, learning through Skype, Youtube or in your local Masjid etc.

None of the means are considered Sunnah, they are Mubah (permissible).

Response:

We have no disagreement on the matter.

Hazrat Worship:

If we say that the standard of piety and Taqwa are dropping then how can we submit and follow everything from the Shaykh?

Response:

I mostly agree with you. There are 3 scenarios here:

  1. Mashaykh: If your Shaykh is not a well grounded Faqih, you should not be following him without consulting Fuqaha and Muftees
  2. Mashaykh + Fuqaha: It is of the opinion of my Shaykh that due to drop in standards 100% Tasleem should not be done to a Shaykh as he is a human and liable to error
  3. (Kamil) Mashaykh + (Kamil) Fuqaha: If you find a personality like that then do 100% Tasleem (submission) to his statements but this is extraordinarily rare and I don’t know anyone who exists in the West (or in England)

The problem is that most people think that their Shaykh falls into category 3 when it is extremely extremely rare!

Rituals:

If we agree that the rituals and Adhkaar of the Tareeqas are not from the sahaba (although permissible) then why don’t we change it OR go back to the Sahabah?

In every other field we go back to the Sahaba.

Response:

The Adhkaar and rituals are changing and do change. When you go do Bay’t to Shaykh (Maulana) Saleem Dhorat Saheb (DB), will he ask you to recite 125,000 daily which is the recommendation of his SilSila?

But we have a problem. The problem is that most of the Mashaykh today are not “Mujtahids” in their Tareeqa, in fact they are not even experts so how can they make Ijtehaad and change the Adhkaar?

I recently met a well known Shaykh a few days ago. He told me about how he is giving permission to his Mureeds (in the Naqshbandi Taqreeqa) to mix Adhkaar from Chishti Silsila but I know his capabilities and I am concerned. I don’t think that he should be asking his Mureeds to do this. In order for him to recommend mixing and matching Naqshbandi and Chishti Silsilas he needs to be well versed and grounded in both Silsilas and know the depths of both.

Rituals:

So why don’t we go back to the Tasawuff of the Sahaba?

Response:

I agree!

The main pathway to Tazkiyah is the Qur’aan. Many of the Mashaykh (today) are going back to huge emphasis on the Qur’aan and daily set of recitation in it.

In fact, some Silsilas have nothing but the Qur’aan.

But how many Mashaykh are able to make that Ijtehaad and make changes? If you believe that standards have dropped among common Muslims, Ulama then what makes you think that the standards among Mashaykh have not dropped?

To me, the best is the way of Shah Waliullah (RA) which is the combination of Qur’aan, Hadeeth, Fiqh and Tassawuff, I don’t know anyone in the west and if you wish to find Mashaykh on that level you will have to travel. The closest I see in England is Shaykh (Maulana) Saleem Dhorat Saheb (DB).

Common Muslims:

What should common Muslims do?

Response:

  1. Concentrate on the Faraidh and obligations
  2. Majority of the Muslims are not even fulfilling their obligations so how can you talk about Tasawuff?

You talk about "Sufi, Sufi"? What percentage of Muslims do you know who are Sufi? You put the blame of the entire world on Sufees in your post, tell me logically how can that be true? How can Sufees (which are less then 1%) do so much damage to the Muslim Ummah???

Tasawuff is alien to Muslims anyways. Common man or woman in the streets of London knows nothing about Tasawuff but they know Nauman Ali Khan etc.

Muadh Khan: Yes, that's what I am saying because the rituals of Tasawuff are from hundreds of years ago and alien to London in 2018 but Nauman Ali Khan is not alien.

Response: Yes, but Sunnah has become Alien! Nauman Ali Khan looks familiar because he dresses, acts like a common person while an Alim (following the Sunnah) is alien in the streets of London...

This answers many of the questions in theory.

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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 19th September 2018 23:03

So find a kaamil Shaykh in both Tariqat and Shariat which is extremely rare or have one who is kaamil in Tariqat and another who is kaamil in Shariat(whoch is what many do nowadays) This is doable and a good advice.


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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 20th September 2018 05:03
ibnAbrar wrote:
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If I understand your comment correctly then that is precisely I am driving at my brother. Those people who are attached to a Shaikh have chosen a path for themselves and in a way these people are not available for us to do the other work of Ummah. I am fine with that. Take for example the case of a labourer. He is toiling from morning till evening and yet it is difficult for him to make both ends meet. Now can I criticize this man for not doing the work of Sufism, Madarsa or Tabligh? Absolutely not. Further down the road can we criticize this man for not doing enough to elevate the trouble that Ummah faces today? Again more emphatically no. So ultimately, as far as I am concerned, it is a question of the others on whom we have to focus. By others I mean the people apart from Khanqah-Madarsa-Tabligh and the people completely burdened by worldly responsibilities. I hope it gets my point across. I personally feel extreme urgency for the other kind of work - the problems of Ummah. We Deobandis have to do our due on this front. Honestly speaking we are legging behind miserably in this sector.

 

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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 20th September 2018 09:49

NaqshBandh wrote:
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In the context of this thread and for the purpose of avoiding Hazrat Worship both solutions work and yours is a more probable but then it creates the dichotomy of having two Shaykhs and I don't know what Tasawuff says about that.
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 20th September 2018 13:54
بسم الله الرحمن اللرحيم


السلام عليكم

I hope everyone is doing well إن شاء الله

The brothers who are posting here concerning "Hazrat worship" cannot be taken as Anti Tasawwuf..

There is an aching in the hearts of practicing Muslims these days when they see the lives of Shuyookh in the pages of history.. The ilm they flowed with.. their Piety.. their resolve to even shake the throne of emperors of their times.. with lives reflecting those of sahabah.. neither affected by praise or criticism..

I was reading through a book once called Intikhab e Bukhari shareef A commentary of Sahih Bukhari by Shaikh Abu Muhammad 'Abd'Allah ibn Abi Jamrah al-Maliki al-Andalusi رحمة الله عليه translated in urdu by Hazrat Maulana Zafar Ahmed uthmani sahab رحمة الله عليه the review of which can be found here.

It was mentioned at a place that amongst the signs of the nearing Qiyamah, the ulema who leave this world shall not be replaced of the same calibre..

The likes of sahabah shall not be replaced.. The likes of Imam Zaynul Abideen Ali Bin Hussain رحمة الله عليه shall not be replaced.. The likes of Imam Ghazzali رحمة الله عليه shall not be reborn.. The likes of Sultan ul Awliya Hazrat Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jeelani رحمة الله عليه shall not return..

To the effect that Hazrat Rasulullah (saw) mentioned among the blessed sahabah رضي الله عنه the meaning of which that There are a people of Zikr who hym the praise of Allah سبحانه وتعالى sitting and moving and while they recline on beds.. such that angels greet them.. and that they are very rare..

So in this age of fitnah to see a few people holding the rosary is also a Mercy of Allah سبحانه وتعالى ..

And among these few people who are taken as heretics or backward people.. there are still men of Allah in recent past who lived in houses made of unburnt bricks.. a life devoid of bling.. and they do exist now.. Alhamdulillah.. and i have met some.. Alhamdulillah..

For those about whom my brothers feel distant from the lives of sahabah.. why dont we engage them.. write letters.. meet them.. clear the smog.. albeit with respect.. and i know well its not an easy task..

You may get hate from their followers.. u will be marked at times.. u would want to just give up on all of them and put them in a bracket.. and forget about them.. or a light may flicker in ur heart that these are my people and the few remnants of practicing Muslims scattered in a land of disbelief.. and it would not be late to build bridges.. إن شاء الله

So make dua to Allah سبحانه وتعالى that they make us his among his obedients and rise us along with his obedients & loved ones.. Ameen..

Request duas..

wa Assalam..
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 20th September 2018 21:09
اکابر کے مسلک کے شارح بنیں محقق نہ بنیں | مولانا الیاس گھمن

youtu.be/DEpepNKg710
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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2018 02:05
"For those about whom my brothers feel distant from the lives of sahabah.. why dont we engage them.. write letters.. meet them.. clear the smog.. albeit with respect.. and i know well its not an easy task..

You may get hate from their followers.. u will be marked at times.. u would want to just give up on all of them and put them in a bracket.. and forget about them.. or a light may flicker in ur heart that these are my people and the few remnants of practicing Muslims scattered in a land of disbelief.. and it would not be late to build bridges.. إن شاء الله "

Excellent advice, Mashallah, Dr. Sahab!

Would it be acceptable to apply this principle to the likes of Maulana Kaleem Siddiqui, Peer Zulfiqar Naqshbandi, and Maulana Saad Kandhalavi too, among others?
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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2018 07:06

السلام عليكم

Yes, why not.. i do not know about the others u quoted.. but with regards to Maulana Saad sahab.. people did and are writing letters to him.. some fell at his feet putting their turbans down.. pleading to end the turmoil.. and they continue to persuade him..

duas..

Wa Assalam..
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 21st September 2018 19:40

dr76 wrote:
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The only disagreement I have with you is about Britain. You can try writing and you will never get a response.

If you try to get an appointment to discuss matters privately, you will not get an opportunity.

If you discuss it in your community, you and your family will get boycotted and shunned.

If you discuss it with other Ulama, you will be hated, targeted, maligned and they will go out of their way to malign your credibility.

There is a reason why so many British Muslims anonymously write in blogs and forums, you hardly ever get anyone stating facts publicly.

I also have a feeling that someone leaks news and information to Haris Hamaam which he then posts on Facebook to bash Deobandees.


What you suggest is common sense but when that door is firmly shut in your face, people simply react in whichever way possible. If leaking to Haris Hamaam makes the news public (while protecting them and their families then so be it) although that strategy does more harm than good.

Sunnah advises us to highlight matters in a manner through which the other side can correct themselves. It is not bad news/information which is important but correction of these matters which is important. Leaking to Haris Hamaam (and this is just my guess) is counterproductive.

There are groups of people:

  1. People who are concerned about the Deobandees and wish them well. They want to bring attention to the illnesses and wish for them to be treated so they bring these matters to public attention for them to be dealt with
  2. People who hate the Deobandees and wish to highlight the bad things to deflect people away from the Deobandees.

After nearly two decades of experience with British Muslims, I can tell you that British Deobandees cannot distinguish between the two groups.

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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2018 04:18
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Colonel Sahab:

This isn't just a situation peculiar to British Muslims, but is endemic to all. Most people are unable to distinguish between the two groups you've listed, and such insight is only due to the Fadl (Blessing) of Allah swt.
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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2018 04:28
(1) For the benefit of Deoband haters - we are OK and we are doing fine. Thank you for asking.
(2) For Deobandis - we are OK. I do mean it. Of course problems will not cease till and even after the arrival of Hazrat Mehdi AS and Hazrat Isa AS and we are waiting for them both and we are marching, by the Grace and Mercy of Allah SWT, on the path shown by Rasoolallah SAW.
(3) Deoband is Islam. This is not a denial, say, of Al-Barelwiyyah or Al-Salafiyyah. But looking at the ground reality even a non-'Alim like me can tell that the Deoband explanation is the best. And let no detractor of Deoband shake you faith in it.
(4) Maulana Saad has been discussed threadbare here and hence I have little to add about him.
(5) I have personally spent time with the companions of Kaleem Siddiqui Sahab and I admit that Kaleem Sahan is genuinely interested in Dawah. But I am not with him and I do not think he is divisive like Maulana Saad.
(6) I have huge Husn-e-Zann for Pir Zulfiqar Sahab in spite of the fact that I do not agree with the view that one should shake hands with Na-Mahram women, do Tawajjoh on them or hug them - the views that are attributed to him in the private channels.
(7) Dr76 has brought out many points that are essential in the context of the present thread.
(8) Of course I too have this grudge when the Mureeds become unavailable for the Ummah because the Shaikh has assured them that being with him is all that is required of them in the path of Allah SWT.
(9) Luckily our Ummah is huge and we still have significant number of believers available for the work of Allah SWT - and here I mean the work apart from the trinity of Sufi-Madarsa-Tabligh.

But I suppose I am repeating myself.
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 22nd September 2018 14:33

Maripat wrote:
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If anyone wishes to follow the Qur'aan and the Sunnah there is no choice but to stick to Deobandi Ulama and Mashaykh (in general) throughout the world.

I have travelled extensively in the world and met many people across the world and there are exceptions to the rule but the general advice is to stick to Deobandi Ulama and Mashaykh.

People may argue and they may say X or Y but this is a fact.

The condition of (practise upon the Sunnah) of graduates of Deobandi Institutes is STILL far superior to others even in our era of decline!


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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 26th September 2018 10:55
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Well the discussion in this thread doesn't seem to be related to what you actually want to discuss.

There are many gaps in our society which do not fall into the fields of any of the already occupied folks. The focus should be to identify those areas.
I don't really know if we can actually do something like that. We are just obsessed with discussing the problem and never a workable solution
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