wazifa from DU Deoband: black pepper,fire,#11

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#106 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 12:12
Quote:
Why does this forum keeps destroying my posts??? Half of mine is gone!

Try using plain editor (or quick reply box) instead of HTML. Your posts cause the page to mess up occasionally.

Alternatively, burn something and see what happens :)
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#107 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 12:18
bint e aisha wrote:
Shias have discovered a treatment through experience and it works well for them because they have a strong belief in it. They use the soil of Karbala for healing their wounds and according to them it is very effective. They say Allah has put these properties in the soil of Karbala and we get cured by the will of Allah. Would any of us try it out because of its effectiveness?

They didn't discover it. They are using the martydom and blood as the means/excuse with the belief of sacred blood in the soil. This is shirk and biddah. It is superstition not a treatment.

You may say burning peppers is superstitios too - but it is the intention, trial and error and results of something not associated to belief of something else.

Carzy, yes. But understanding the difference is important.
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#108 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 12:21
abu mohammed wrote:
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Also, if it works for them then that is because Allah has tested their belief and they failed and Shaitan is making things work for them.

Just like the flickering of the eye. It is shaitan who is doing that, but as soon as you belive that such and such an amulet will stop it from flickering, shaitan will stop attacking you and his job is complete - that is to move you away from Allah.
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#109 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 13:07
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
So just because something is “mysterious” to you, it will lead you to reject it? Bangle example does not apply as Abu Muhammad has explained. [/quote]
No it does apply. Abu Mohammed has also said: "With regards to the Bangle example I have given, we only know that it is forbidden because of the Hadith, otherwise if the Hadith was not known to many people (and it is not known by many), the principles laid out above seem like it should be okay."

Quote:
Let me put this to you. If I go to a villager with fever and I give him Aspirin and the fever goes it will be mysterious to him so should he reject it as well?

To you Aspirin is not mysterious but to him Aspirin is extremely mysterious.
To Darul-uloom Deoband this is not mysterious but to you this is highly mysterious

What should we do now? [/quote]
No mechanism of Aspirin is not mysterious. The villager must have taken homeopathic or other medicines in the past so he can relate aspirin to them.

DU Deoband or some amil should explain how it works.. Your explanations are only guesswork and and not facts.

Quote:
We leave Islam to the discussions of mechanics? [/quote]

The chillie method somehow can be related to brass bangle. We don't know the reason as to why Rasulullah Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam declared it Haram. But what is the safest approach with regards to chillie/pepper method? Abstention is better especially when we have no idea about the mechanism involved.

Quote:
Do you think reciting the last 3 Surahs ALWAYS WORKS on patients afflicted with a problem?

YES or NO?

^^^^ Critical Question!

Do you think all treatments work 100% of the time?



NO. It is in the hands of Allah. We are seeking refuge in Allah.. We are asking for His protection. If a person eats Haram, if he is involved in haram activities, if he is pleasing Shaytan, Allah will not accept his duas. And at times, Allah will not immediately answer our prayers and that's a test. So cure is ultimately in the hands of Allah.

[quote]It is an expicit action of Hinduism and their belief

There is NO Sunnah of opening a Mosque

There is NO reason for this

Chilli burning may be act done by Hindus but it is NOT part of Hinduism and in this example there is no BELIEF


^^^^ Critical

Hindus eat Potatoes but Potato eating is NOT part of Hindusim!

Coconut breaking is part of Hinduism!

Coconut breaking is part of Hinduism but it is NOT an act of worship. They're merely using it as a treatment. Similar is the case with chillies.

[quote]IF Coconut actually had some properties in it and it is USED as a treatment YES it will NOT be Haram! Even when we know that Hindus use it for opening Mandirs!


I would say: IF burning Chillies had some properties then it will not be Haram!
You neither have any idea about the properties of chillie nor about coconut. Then why are you justifying the chillie method through conjectures and declaring coconut breaking as haram?

[quote]YES, YES & YES

Now you are thinking

There is a belief associated that this action. Where is the belief with burning Chilli?


It may not be shirk but it is highly stupid. Would you use the soil of Karbala?
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#110 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 13:22
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#111 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 13:31

bint e aisha wrote:
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Good, lets continue to proceed slowly but unpacking many points.

Just because something is stupid, ridiculous, mechanics not understood, not 100% effective DOES NOT make it Haram.

Do you agree or disagree and if you disagree on what grounds?

After reflecting on your answer, I will proceed with the rest of your objections?

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#112 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 13:32
Concerned wrote:
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Maybe the Hadith is explicit to bras. If so, then the wording in the title of my blog post should be edited

I don't know what references have been given in the first link and the second link could've been better answered.

Maybe someone can contact those scholars and ask the same question in reference to the Hadith.

UPDATE:I've looked at the Arabic references provided and they are not specific for this ailment and probably needs revising, Allahu Alum.
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#113 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 15:24

From an old book where I must admit, I did learn a lot but have also argued with other points made by the same author (Salafi scholar)

I still stand by my blog post (even though I edited the title :( I have also sent the Hadith to both sites to be looked into with reference to the answers they have given and the Hadith quoted)
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#114 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 16:03
Islamweb says there is room for such bracelets to be allowed. But they aren't referring to treating the evil eye, only "normal" sickness.

Quote:
As regards being treated with such magnet bracelets; if it is confirmed that it is beneficial with scientific experiments and not with just illusions, then the matter is as mentioned that there is a difference of opinion about it. However, if the issue has a connection with magic and superstition, then it is an obligation to avoid it. Shaykh Ibn Baaz may Allaah have mercy upon him was asked about the use of some magnet bracelets for treatment and he answered: “There is no doubt that wearing such magnet bracelets is similar to what the people used to do in the Pre-Islamic era of ignorance, as it is either among the forbidden polytheistic matters or among its means, so the least that can be said about it is that it is a doubtful matter.”[/quote]

www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Optio...

This quote from islamqa on using healing crystals is also interesting. This is not relates to our initial topic, as this fatwa and the one from Islamweb are referring to treatments for "regular" illness, and not for those affected by the evil eye. I don't get the impression that they allow experimentations such as those in the OP, nor using bracelets etc when it comes to the evil eye.
[quote]
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him) said, explaining the means that it is permissible to use for treating sickness:

The means that Allah, may He be exalted, has caused to be means are of two types:

1.

Means that are prescribed in Islam, such as the Holy Qur’an and du‘aa’ (supplication), as the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said concerning Soorat al-Faatihah: “How did you know it is a ruqyah?” And the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) used to perform ruqyah for the sick by offering du‘aa’ asking Allah, may He be exalted, to heal by means of his du‘aa’ whomever He wanted to heal thereby.

2.

Physical means such as regular medicine that is known through sharee‘ah, such as honey, and through trial and experience, such as many other kinds of medicine and remedies. For this category, the effect should be direct, not by way of imagination. If it is proven that something has a direct effect, then it is valid to be used to treat sickness and healing will be achieved thereby, by Allah’s leave. But if it is just something imaginary that the sick person imagines will bring him psychological relief based on that imagination and that it will alleviate the sickness, and perhaps this psychological sense of relief may lead to recovery from sickness, then in this case it is not permissible to rely on it and that does not prove that it is a remedy. That is so that people will not pin their hopes on illusions. Hence it is forbidden to wear halaqah bracelets, strings and the like to cure or ward off disease, because that is not a means that is prescribed in sharee‘ah, nor is it proven on the basis of trial and experience. So long as there is no proof that it is a means of healing in either shar‘i or scientific terms, it is not permissible to take it as a means, because taking it as a means is a kind of contesting the sovereignty of Allah, may He be exalted, and it is associating something else with Him, because He is the only One Who creates cause and effect (and such actions attribute effects to causes that Allah has not made to be such).

End quote from Majmoo‘ Fataawa wa Rasaa’il al-‘Uthaymeen, 17/70
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#115 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 16:07

Concerned wrote:
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Treatment for Jinn/Black Magic is highly subjective matter and people differ greatly on the issue so nobody has YET claimed that the treatment given in OP is agreed upon.

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#116 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 16:19
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Agreed as I said I still am not convinced regarding the op post. But when it comes to the items used, you all are trying to explain items such as pepper and smoke can have an effect on the jinn, and therefore would be permisible due to that, and I see where you all are coming from.
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#117 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 16:34

Concerned wrote:
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In your view

  1. It has no affect.
  2. It is 100% useless
  3. It is not effective
  4. It cannot be proven
  5. We don't understand the mechanics behind it

All 5 are (hypothetically) true.

How does the treatment in OP become impermissible? Please give Islamic evidence that if someone in their experience has found it to be beneficial on his 20 patients, how do you declare it to be impermissible?

You have the right to say its ineffective (that's fine), you don't need to use it (also fine), how does it become impermissible?

IF you are saying that it is your subjective opinion and not an Islamic ruling, you have the absolute right to make that call (no problems).

But I am questioning your rights to mould Islamic Shariah to your subjective opinion

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#118 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 16:42
The fatwa claims that certain items and methods fixes a problem. I have not said that it is permissible or impermissible, I am asking people to prove it is permissible, and that it is not related to magic and haram amulets etc. The burden of proof is on the one laying the claim.

And I repeatedly acknowledged that I have understood what you all have said regarding using peppers, lemons etc and using smoke and strong scents etc and how these affect the person afflicted with evil eye and jinns.

It would be good if we could get a Mufti to confirm the explanations in this thread are correct. I think this would also satisfy the sister.
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#119 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 16:57
I don't think there is much more for me to say, jazak Allahu khair for providing your explanations.

I explained what I learnt above. the issues that still haven't been cleared up are

1) the use of a black string bracelet

2) the need for clarification about the particular wazifa from the OP, and I mentioned some of the issues that need to be clarified already.
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#120 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 17:24
Concerned wrote:
I don't think there is much more for me to say, jazak Allahu khair for providing your explanations.

I explained what I learnt above.

What have you learnt?
Did you learn that Smoke wards of Evil, Smell wards of Evil or it doesn't or it's possible orit's impossible?
Because many people burn Bakhoor/Incense stick with this belief too :(

The subject can be vague/shady but it is the essence in the belief, the method of treatment and aqeedah that will determine the outcome or any results. As long as they don't contradict the teachings of Islam.

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