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#91 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 16:28
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#92 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 16:43
sipraomer wrote:
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(masha) well said..


sipraomer wrote:
I am not saying that all are frauds.[/quote]

And iam saying 90 – 95% of them are frauds & tricksters.

sipraomer wrote:
However, when I started practicing Shariah, removed pictures from my home, spent time in tabligh and became regular in masjid, all the things went away.


My uncle was severly affected with sihr.. he set out for 10 days in Jamaat.. one night he saw a dream that someone was removing nails from his body.. and the next morning he woke up as a healthy man.. Masha Allah..

Then there are also those incidents of healthy people who after going in Tableegh became afflicted with Jinns etc..

I was in 40 days Jamaat at Kanpur U.P, There was an old man with us who was bayat with Hazrat Mufti Abdul Qayyum sahab (rah).

The Masjid where we stayed had two floors above. We were told to stay on the first floor.

The old man went up to keep his belongings and returned very terrified. He was shivering and crying.. and rapidly developed a fever.. I asked him repeatedly as to what happened.. but he remained silent. I gave him medicines for fever.. but did not help.. he was in this condition throughout the night..

After Fajr he seemed normal.. his fever was gone.. I asked him what happened.. said he was about to keep his belongings when he saw a very ugly form with the face of a Pig.. which stared at him.. and he got frightened..

Then at fajr he saw Hazrat Mufi Abdul Qayyum sahab (rah) ( I don’t remember what he said after that) and he began feeling better..

[quote"sipraomer"]Especially after doing bayt and tassawuf dhikr, whenever they tried to attack me in my dream, I would hear Allah's name by Allah's mercy and they would always fail.


Not just in dreams even in reality.. the dharb of ilallah burns away many of the khabeeth..

Recently I was visiting a real hidden gem.. A Khalifa of Hazrat Maulana Shah Abdul Qadir sahab Raipuri (rah) who lives at a remote place preaching the deen of Allah.. I have met very very few people of his spirituality up till now.. his name is Hazrat Mufti Abdul Ghani sahab (db) .. I cannot share all the details now.. but pertaining to the topic there was this young man who was accompanying my peer bhai..

He said Hazrat my wife is possessed by a jinn.. and hazrat (db) jokingly replied “ what kind of husband are u..” why did u not finish it with the dharb of ilallah..

Yet.. There are exceptions.. one may burn many kind of these beings with dharbs.. but there is something called Hamzaat or Nasimma (as mentioned in Hadith) that these hindu Tantriks or those sahirs using sifli ilm utilize to harm others.. that as told by an Amil require certain specific names of Allah سبحانه وتعالى to be recited to burn them..

As said earlier.. it is a deep & dark science.. and a study of its own..

Request duas..

wa Assalam..
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#93 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 19:20
dr76 wrote:
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Ajeeb ilm,mashaAllah

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#94 [Permalink] Posted on 6th March 2018 09:50

dr76 wrote:
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A Shaykh in UK whom I know had a visit from local HT to debate Tasawuff. They were discussing Karamaat and the Shaykh said, what if I told you:

I can walk thorugh walls!

HT boys ignored him thinking that he is joking so and the Shaykh said it again, what if I told you:

I can walk thorugh walls!

They ignored it again thinking that he is joking.

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#95 [Permalink] Posted on 6th March 2018 13:58
Assalam u alaikum warahmatullah

Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Isn't it a belief that if he burns peppers (while reciting some wazifa), it would make his wife love him? But abu Mohammed has conjectured that smoke has an effect on jinnat..

concerned wrote:
People here are saying that the scent from the lemon or properties of the coconut affects the jinn, so it would not be shirk. [/quote]
Funny.. but nobody has said this.

[quote=Muadh Khan]Tying threads is a Hindu practise as you can see in Mandirs
The associated belief with it "Black Thread protects" is contrary to the teachings of Islam and Shirk
The associated practise with it is to go to Mazars and do Mannat etc.
There is NO reason for this. Its a stupid, silly, useless practise!
^^^^^^ Aqeedah


This is what I was saying regarding the Chilli method. But the chilli method is Halal and wearing a black thread is Haram?

And the three points which you gave me can also be used to justify this method.

1. It is NOT an act of worship
2. It is used as a treatment
3. It does not contradict the Quran and the Sunnah
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#96 [Permalink] Posted on 6th March 2018 16:07
bint e aisha wrote:
This is what I was saying regarding the Chilli method. But the chilli method is Halal and wearing a black thread is Haram?

And the three points which you gave me can also be used to justify this method.

1. It is NOT an act of worship
2. It is used as a treatment
3. It does not contradict the Quran and the Sunnah


Burning Chilli (smoke - smell) possibly has an effect on the Shaitan/Eye
The Black string is sometimes called permissable and at other times, impermissable. Why, I don't know. This could depend on the questioner and their belief of what is the cause and how it is being treated.

Using Haram to cure Magic is not permitted. Using Halal to cure Magic is permitted.

Using Knots is the way of evil (as far as I know) that is why Allah mentions knots many times in the Quran and is also talked about in the Hadith. Shaitan tie knots and blow on them etc etc. Magic (jinn use) can also be done like this, so these will not be allowed.

Hanging a Chilli and lemon on the front door of a house "may" ward of evil spirits, but when we "know" that we can recite Ayatul Qursi for the same and even more powerful effect, we shouldn't need to look into hanging food up.

It all comes down to how you believe in it.

If we believe that Aspirin is the 100% cure, then we have erred. If we believe that by the Will of Allah the chemical reaction within the Aspirin is helping in the cure, then this is totally different. So now we have one thing that can be Halal and Haram, it all depends on how we accept/understand it.
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#97 [Permalink] Posted on 6th March 2018 16:21
abu mohammed wrote:
Hanging a Chilli and lemon on the front door of a house "may" ward of evil spirits, but when we "know" that we can recite Ayatul Qursi for the same and even more powerful effect, we shouldn't need to look into hanging food up.


Exactly. Even if it works, I would never use such methods especially when we have Ayatul Kursi, Mu'awwidhatain and other powerful verses and duas.

بسم الله الذي لا يضر مع اسمه شيء في الأرض ولا في السماء وهو السميع العليم


"In the name of Allah, with whose name nothing can cause harm in the earth and the sky, and He is the All-hearing and All-knowing."
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#98 [Permalink] Posted on 6th March 2018 16:56
Sometimes it can come down to ones own ijtihad, infact, most of these treatments are like that.

The Sahabi wasn't taught that Surah Fatiha could be used to treat a scorpion bite, it was his own ijtihad and it worked.

Another Sahabi wasn't taught by the Prophet (saw) to recite Ayatul Qursi to keep Shaitan at bay, it was shared by Shaitan and it worked.

The Prophet (saw) has taught us other means of removing harm which doesn't involve praying etc. Just a certain number/portion (usually odd number) and making the use of water one way or the other.

The Prophet (saw) has even mentioned keeping certain foods in the house to avoid poverty/destitution for example.

So by trial and error, others have found many ways to "treat" things - as long as they don't believe that "it" was the only cause, rather that Allah used that as the means for the cure.

One would ask why would Allah cure in this way. Well, because as it has been said before, He created the disease and He also created it's cure, all we have to do is find it. When we strive sincerely, Allah can cure with something that will only work for one person and not work for others. And at other times, the cure found, can work for everyone. Afterall, this life is a test and sometimes we might be tested in these ways, we just have to make sure we don't sell our Imaan for treatment!

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#99 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 09:24


abu mohammed wrote:
Ask a scholar, if they say yes, then let's look into it and if they say no, then that's the end of that :)


I must stress on this point of seeking clarification from the learned and authentic scholars as they will have knowledge that we may not posses. They understand the Sunnah and Aqeedah better than we do.

So don't just read everything here and take it as fully understood. There will be times when something is actually Shirk and it will look just like an ordinary treatment.

Here is a so-called treatment to an ailment - here it seems like it has nothing to do with Islam, it looks like a treatment, but how would we know if it is not in contradiction to the Quran or Hadith? We aren't Fuqaha or .... :)

www.muftisays.com/blog/abu+mohammed/788_02-01-2011/copper...





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#100 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 09:38
abu mohammed wrote:
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I had sent the question to a Mufti.. Let's see if I get an answer.
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#101 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 09:54

bint e aisha wrote:
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You clearly are confusing belief and expectation.


1.    Belief: Allah Ta'ala is my Rabb and nothing can harm and nothing can benefit except Allah
2.    Expectation: If take an Apsirin I have an expectation that my headache will get better


If I believe that Aspirin will make headache better OR if I believe that Aspirin has the power to cure that is Shirk.


Hindus and Barelwees believe that going to Mazars or making Sujood to Ghair-Allah will cure their problem and that is plain Shirk!


Barelwees insert Bidah into Islam and turn legitimate and genuine acts of worship into disputed issues (examples given).


I know that you like to rush things along but slow down and try to understand and distinguish principals’ issues. I am not asking you to change your mind you can believe whatever you want but you are failing to grasp the fundamentals here.


•    ASPIRIN is a treatment for an illness.
•    The method described in OP (no matter how much you disagree with it) is a treatment to a problem


Both have the same principles behind them i.e:


1.    Do they clash with any explicit principles of Qur'aan and Sunnah?
2.    Do they contain Haram ingredients or methods?
3.    Do they superimpose any Shirki believes?


Your error is that you think ASPIRIN is a treatment but this is not a treatment? Why??? You have had to explain why you think this cannot be classified as treatment.


I will give you another example, to make a patient (afflicted with Jinn) smell strong odour is a TREATMENT for their condition, what makes you think that it is not a treatment?


Your second error is that you don’t understand that objects have physical characteristics and properties. A lemon has properties and doesn’t matter a lemon is used by a Hindu woman or Muslim woman, the properties will apply.


SO IF ALLAH has put some sort of properties in Lemon or Coconut or Chilli these properties are INHERENT in the object and it will do its job (by the permission of Allah). If a Hindu uses chilli to drive out demons and a Muslims uses it for the same purpose it is in the intent, purpose and method and not the object.


A potato will be eaten by a Hindu child or a Muslim child and have the same effect on their digestive system regardless of their religion. So if Hindus were using potatoes in a certain manner 5000 years ago and you can google and prove it to me it doesn’t mean anything.
If a Muslim starts to ascribe a “belief” to a Coconut or paints a Coconut like Hindus or opens a Masjid by breaking a Coconut that will be Haram but why would using a coconut for its physical and intrinsic properties be Haram?


I am not in expert in this field at all but IF ALLAH has put certain properties in Chilli and mankind through experience (Hindus, Christians, Sikhs) have discovered those properties and Muslims also use those properties what is the issue?


THERE IS NO BELIEF HERE AT ALL! Please slow down and point out exactly which words or which part constitutes a belief?


Once again, I am not forcing you to start practising this I am asking a genuine Academic question as to WHERE DO YOU SEE a belief just because Hindus and Muslims are using Chilli (in same or similar way).


MADE UP EXAMPLE:


I urge you to study research on Prophetic medicine there are many similarities between some cures and Ayurveda and Chinese Medicine etc. Ginger helps calm women with depression after childbirth some say this happens due to Black Magic but give the woman Ginger…Ayurveda is filled with uses of Ginger


So if DU issues a Fatwa that we want you recite Ya Allah 47 times and then make the woman eat ginger you will reject that?


PROBLEM:


I think that your physical mind cannot comprehend that it is possible that a psychical act may have an effect in the demonic world and your mind cannot wrap itself around it.


I understand that you are having trouble but you are not even getting past the first question, WHAT BELIEF? WHERE IS THE BELIEF IN THIS?

Please slow down and explain to me in simple words as to where do you see belief in any of this? I am not as intelligent as you so slow down and spell it out for me word by word, belief in this.

www.darulifta-deoband.com/home/en/Dua-Supplications/4906

Quote:

After the Isha Salah, take 11 grains of black pepper and recite یا لطیف یا ودود1100 times with durood 11 times before and after while thinking your wife to love you. Having it done, blow on the black peppers and put them in burning fire and pray to Allah. Do this at least for forty days.

  1. Are you calling "thinking" a belief?

If so I can answer that but I have read this many times and I don't see any belief in this whatsoever so please spell it out very clearly

bint e aisha wrote:
View original post

And it still would NOT make it Haram at all, no matter what is the answer.

bint e aisha wrote:
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Do you also use it for Fever or do you paracetamol?

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#102 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 10:31
Muadh wrote:
And it still would NOT make it Haram at all, no matter what is the answer.

That would depend on how the question is asked and how it will be applied.

Example:
Can I hang chillies and lemon on my door?
Can I hang chillies and lemon on my door to ward off evil?
Can I hang chillies and lemon on my door to ward off evil due to its scent/odour?
Is it shirk to hang Chillies and Lemons?
Is it shirk to hang Chillies and Lemons like the way was the Hindu's do?
Is it Biddah to hang chilli and lemon?
Is it Sunnah to hang chilli and lemon?
Is there any basis in Islam for hanging chilli and lemon?
Does Chilli and Lemon have the power to protect my home?
Can I recite 1100 Dorood and blow over chilli and lemon and hang it my door for protection?
If the smell of lemons and chilli ward off the jinns, can I hang it up on my door as a deterrent?

So many ways of asking the same thing and possibly each time there will be an answer that doesn't make sense or even be contradictory.


With regards to the Bangle example I have given, we only know that it is forbidden because of the Hadith, otherwise if the Hadith was not known to many people (and it is not known by many), the principles laid out above seem like it should be okay.

It is possible that it is forbidden because it is temporary illusion/retraction and not a treatment or cure. The pain returns as soon as the bangle is removed.

Treatment can be one thing, Temporary chemical reaction can be another thing.

The sister has taken the right step to ask scholars. The scholar will probably say it is shirk due to the belief that it is the chilli and lemon posessing the power to ward of evil! Or the scholar could say that there is no harm in that as long as it is not associated with Allah.

So many possibilities.
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#103 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 11:03

abu mohammed wrote:
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She has absolutely done the right thing.

However given all the permutations you have given a Fatwa of Haram (by a Mufti) will not make this unequivocally Haram.

There is a brother on this forum and I have spoken to him numerous times about an issue. It is dead clear that he is unable to grasp the intricacies of the issue and he also DOES NOT understand that a Fatwa is an answer to his scenario and his circumstances. I even asked him if he understood as to what is a "Fatwa" and his answer left me in no doubt that he doesn't understand.

  1. A belief is an issue of creed pertaining to Aqeedah
  2. A Bid'ah is an action which is claimed to be Sunnah OR done with the intention of reward
  3. Resemblance to Non-Muslims is Tashabbu which is in issues pertaining to Aqeedah or Worship and not in matters of (Dunya or Medical) treatment

Examples...

Going to a Mazar and asking to be blessed with a son etc is an issue of belief.

Celebrating the birthday of Prophet (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassallam) is Bidah.

Wearing a Rolex watch is neither. Taking Paracetamol is neither. Taking a Physics Exam is neither. Burning Chilli is also neither. These are actions which are permissable, if elevated to Sunnah or even Mustahab etc they will become Bid'ah, if someone says that I am taking a Physics Exam with the intention of reward then we will also have a problem. If a belief is associated with i.e. Paracetamol CAN CURE then we will also have a problem!

Taking a physics Exam (just) is just an action which is permissable and conditions will need to be looked at in detail.

A Mufti who has no grasp of Amaliyaat CAN potentially call this Haram just like asking a Mufti about Pass-Anfaas who has no idea or experience may declare it Haram simply because he (or she) has no familiarity with the area of Naqshbandi-Mujaddidi Tareeqa.

We deal with hunderds of issues which the human mind cannot comprehend (logically) i.e. if its not raining to pray Salatul-Istasqaa makes no logical sense but we suspend belief because it in Sunnah.

They are unable to find Chilli burning in Sunnah and I fully grasp that they cannot wrap their head around it and due to lack of evidence of this practise they are not willing to suspend belief.

BUT treatments are based on experience and personal judgement.

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#104 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 11:07
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post


Quote:
• ASPIRIN is a treatment for an illness.
• The method described in OP (no matter how much you disagree with it) is a treatment to a problem


Both have the same principles behind them i.e:


1. Do they clash with any explicit principles of Qur'aan and Sunnah?
2. Do they contain Haram ingredients or methods?
3. Do they superimpose any Shirki believes?[/quote]

No the principles behind them are not the same. We know how Aspirin works but the method described in the OP is quite mysterious. Why did Rasulullah Sallallahu alaihi wasallam admonished the man who was wearing a brass bangle. He was using it as a treatment and apparently it wasn't contradicting Quran and Sunnah.

We do not understand the mechanics behind this method. If Rasulullah Sallallahu alaihi wasallam was alive amongst us, we would have asked him. But now it would be better to abstain from such methods in my opinion.
Quote:
I will give you another example, to make a patient (afflicted with Jinn) smell strong odour is a TREATMENT for their condition, what makes you think that it is not a treatment?[/quote]

There is nothing mysterious with this treatment whatsoever so I have no problem with it.

Quote:
SO IF ALLAH has put some sort of properties in Lemon or Coconut or Chilli these properties are INHERENT in the object and it will do its job (by the permission of Allah). [/quote]

What are those properties? What job are these objects doing (by the permission of Allah)?

Quote:
If a Muslim starts to ascribe a “belief” to a Coconut or paints a Coconut like Hindus or opens a Masjid by breaking a Coconut that will be Haram but why would using a coconut for its physical and intrinsic properties be Haram?[/quote]
Why is that Haram? They can justify it like you that the coconut is absorbing the evil spirits (by the permission of Allah).

[quote]I am not in expert in this field at all but IF ALLAH has put certain properties in Chilli and mankind through experience (Hindus, Christians, Sikhs) have discovered those properties and Muslims also use those properties what is the issue?

Shias have discovered a treatment through experience and it works well for them because they have a strong belief in it. They use the soil of Karbala for healing their wounds and according to them it is very effective. They say Allah has put these properties in the soil of Karbala and we get cured by the will of Allah. Would any of us try it out because of its effectiveness?

[quote]I think that your physical mind cannot comprehend that it is possible that a psychical act may have an effect in the demonic world and your mind cannot wrap itself around it.


I understand that you are having trouble but you are not even getting past the first question, WHAT BELIEF? WHERE IS THE BELIEF IN THIS?

Please slow down and explain to me in simple words as to where do you see belief in any of this? I am not as intelligent as you so slow down and spell it out for me word by word, belief in this.


Please don't get esoterical on such flimsy grounds. I am not as intelligent as you. As I've explained in the previous example of shias, its a belief that chillie and its burning would make his wife love him. You are saying that chillie has a physical effect on jinn but that's mere conjecture.

[quote]And it still would NOT make it Haram at all, no matter what is the answer.

Then why did you say that scholars should be consulted for rulings? :(

[quote]Do you also use it for Fever or do you paracetamol?


Again I know how paracetamol works. Sometimes fever gets cured and at other times it does not. It clearly shows that it cannot work if Allah does not will so. Getting treatment for our ailments is a sunnah but it depends which treatments are we resorting to.
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#105 [Permalink] Posted on 7th March 2018 11:59
bint e aisha wrote:
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Jazakallahu Khayran for reading. I will proceed slowly and in the end there is no problems with you disagreeing as long you understand the other side and what is being said.

Quote:
No the principles behind them are not the same. We know how Aspirin works but the method described in the OP is quite mysterious. Why did Rasulullah Sallallahu alaihi wasallam admonished the man who was wearing a brass bangle. He was using it as a treatment and apparently it wasn't contradicting Quran and Sunnah. [/quote]

So just because something is “mysterious” to you, it will lead you to reject it? Bangle example does not apply as Abu Muhammad has explained.

The issue here as I have stated again and again is that you don’t understand the mechanics of it so you are refusing to accept it.
Let me put this to you. If I go to a villager with fever and I give him Aspirin and the fever goes it will be mysterious to him so should he reject it as well?

To you Aspirin is not mysterious but to him Aspirin is extremely mysterious.
To Darul-uloom Deoband this is not mysterious but to you this is highly mysterious

What should we do now?

Quote:
We do not understand the mechanics behind this method. If Rasulullah Sallallahu alaihi wasallam was alive amongst us, we would have asked him. But now it would be better to abstain from such methods in my opinion. [/quote]

See example of Apsirin and Villager, above.

Villager doesn't understand the mechanics of Aspirin and you don't understand the mechanics of this method so now what ?

We leave Islam to the discussions of mechanics?





Many people don't understand how a plane flies. I have seen villagers in Haram who don't understand the mechanics of escalator as to how steps keep moving, I have seen with my open eyes a Pakistani old woman scared and afraid to step foot on it so what should we do, declare it impermissible?

Quote:
Again I know how paracetamol works. Sometimes fever gets cured and at other times it does not. It clearly shows that it cannot work if Allah does not will so. Getting treatment for our ailments is a sunnah but it depends which treatments are we resorting to.


And where does it say that this will 100% work? OR that this treatment has CURE in it (instead of Allah)?

Do you think reciting the last 3 Surahs ALWAYS WORKS on patients afflicted with a problem?

YES or NO?

^^^^ Critical Question!

Do you think all treatments work 100% of the time?

[quote]There is nothing mysterious with this treatment whatsoever so I have no problem with it. What are those properties? What job are these objects doing (by the permission of Allah)?


I was trying to make you think that objects have properties.

Objects have properties e.g Garlic, Ginger etc have properties do you deny them? I don't know the properties of Chilli I am merely trying to make you think and reflect.

Mankind has researched objects and their properties may work in a certain way.
Why is that Haram? They can justify it like you that the coconut is absorbing the evil spirits (by the permission of Allah).

Because:


It is an expicit action of Hinduism and their belief

There is NO Sunnah of opening a Mosque

There is NO reason for this

Chilli burning may be act done by Hindus but it is NOT part of Hinduism and in this example there is no BELIEF


^^^^ Critical

Hindus eat Potatoes but Potato eating is NOT part of Hindusim!

Coconut breaking is part of Hinduism!

IF Coconut actually had some properties in it and it is USED as a treatment YES it will NOT be Haram! Even when we know that Hindus use it for opening Mandirs!

So what? Muslim use Coconut Oil to cook Samosay doesn't make Coconut Haram :)

^^^^ Critical
[quote]Shias have discovered a treatment through experience and it works well for them because they have a strong belief in it. They use the soil of Karbala for healing their wounds and according to them it is very effective. They say Allah has put these properties in the soil of Karbala and we get cured by the will of Allah. Would any of us try it out because of its effectiveness?


YES, YES & YES

Now you are thinking

There is a belief associated that this action. Where is the belief with burning Chilli?

Let me ask you a question.

Why does this forum keeps destroying my posts??? Half of mine is gone!




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