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wazifa from DU Deoband: black pepper,fire,#11

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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 10:10
Quote:
Allah Ta’ala has placed two Angels on your shoulders to record your deeds, please explain it to me with logic?


There is no need to, because Allah told us this.

For clarity those who are using the word spiritual, please provide a definition so we can be clear on what we are speaking about .
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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 10:11

Concerned wrote:
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Concerned wrote:
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You have skipped the question!

You have two Angels on your shoulders, please explain using logic?

If you wish to rely on revelation THEN where has Allah told you that this is impermissible? 

www.muftisays.com/forums/14-peoples-say/11875-wazifa-from...

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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 10:15
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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All the above methods used by the Hindus and Barelvis do not conflict with the Quran and the Sunnah. Are they all permissible? Can I hang red chillies and lemon outside my house for protection?

Aspirin and biscuits are not related to Hinduism in any way, shape or form.
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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 10:16
Please define spiritual.

It is obvious that everything about the deen cannot be explained by logic.

For , everything else, it is normal human, intelligent behaviour to ask for a reason for doing something, unless you are getting paid to do it. The methods used are not part of deen.

I am not the one that brought up logic. I asked how do you know it works, and Abu Muhammad said by experience, and you said we don't no if it is effective but it is still permissible. I take your two points.
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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 10:37

bint e aisha wrote:
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The first argument I addressed is NOT EVERYTHING which has Non-Muslim origins is impermissible and hence my example of Aspirin and Biscuits (crude but to make a point). You either accept this or if you don’t give me your evidence that you think everything which has Non-Muslim origins is Haram?

IF you don’t actually believe it then we don’t have a disagreement so let’s proceed forwards.

I think that you are mistaken between ACTS of WORSHIP and treatment. What is described in the OP is not an act of worship! It is a form of treatment like taking aspirin etc  

The ARGUMENT made by brothers is that this is NOT mentioned in the Qur’aan and Sunnah so its impermissible and I am saying that this is NOT an act of worship, it is a treatment.

  1. It could potentially be permissible.
  2. It  could potentially be impermissible.

It is NOT an act of worship so nothing to do with Hindus or Barelwees, it’s a T-R-E-A-T-M-E-N-T and lets take the case of Aspirin and we check:

  1. DOES the treatment itself conflict or contradict with Qur'aan and Sunnah?
  2. DOES anything within Aspitin contradict with Qur'aan and Sunnah?

Now apply the same for the treatment and check with Ulama.

Teh key confuision for you is that this is NOT an act of worship.


Concerned wrote:
View original post

Claim:

I am not the one that brought up logic.

Answer:

www.muftisays.com/forums/14-peoples-say/11875-wazifa-from...

2) if the procedure mentioned in the opening post cannot be explained by logic, then how did such treatments come about and how do we know they are effective?

Spin?

Are you willing to accept that you have wasted enough time and wish to backtrack?

The Point:

The point I am making is that this is NOT Aqeedah, not an act of worship and simply a treatment so the rules which I have given umpteen times before will apply

  1. Does it contradict with Shariah?
  2. Does it conflict with Shariah?

it’s a T-R-E-A-T-M-E-N-T

Unanswered Question:

WHY Saheeh Bukhari? Why not Riyadus-Saliheen or any other book?

He did not say read a book of poetry written by a sahabi.

Reading bukhari is a good deed and consists of sending salutations on the Prophet salalahu alayhhi wasalm, reading duas and istigfar mentioned in the hadith, seeking knowledge etc.

What does this have to do with peppers and fire that we are discussing? If we were speaking about reading Hansel and Gretel , then you would have a point.

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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 10:50
I am not the one that brought up logic, I was merely responding to you, who brought up logic in your madkhali post. Since you said it can't be explained by logic, I simply asked how do we known they work.

Anyways I see what you all are saying so far, but define spiritual when it comes to using "spiritual" cures for the evil eye. I asked this simple question multiple times. Paste a dictionary definition of what you mean.

With regards to using another hadith compilation other than bukhari, then this has already been answered in Abu Muhammad's post, and would not be an issue:
Quote:

It is a famous statement among the Muhaddithun:

‘When reciting Hadith, Allah Ta’ala’s special mercies descend.’

(Tadribur Rawi, vol.4 pg.540)[/quote]
[quote]
During times of difficulty, fear and hardship, in addition to Quran recital and other forms of du’a etc, one practice of our pious predecessors; recent and ancient is to recite the entire Sahih Bukhari in order to draw Allah Ta’ala’s special mercy.
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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 10:59

Concerned wrote:
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The Issue:

The Muhaddithun in the past and present would recite the entire Bukhari for alleviating – among other things-:

  1. General calamity,
  2. Fear and terror,
  3. Illness,
  4. Drought,
  5. Personal needs etc.

DOES NOT mention:

  1. Hadeeth (only)
  2. Any other Hadeeth book

So answer from:

  1. Logic
  2. Qur'aan and Sunnah

Retractions?

  1. You are free to retract your logic comment publicly and say that logic has nothing to do with Treatment

  2. You are free to retract your efficacy comment and say that efficacy and permissibility are two different matters

  3. You are free to state that all noble and blessed Ahadeeth are full of blessings and not just Saheeh Buukhari and you are unable to provide a logical or Shariah based reason for the practise of completing Saheeh Bukhari. 

  4. Your last point implies that practise of pious elders is proof! Do you agree or do you wish to retract?
     

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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 11:05
You know what, discussing/debating with you is illogical.
There is no point going down the road you are going. You have a habit of finding small issues to pick on and prove a point and argue rather than carry on with the discussion.
And as usual you insists everyone answers your queries but blatantly refuses to answer a simple query.



Abu Muhammad can you please define spiritual when used in the context of spiritual cure for the evil eye.
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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 11:07
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
The first argument I addressed is NOT EVERYTHING which has Non-Muslim origins is impermissible and hence my example of Aspirin and Biscuits (crude but to make a point). You either accept this or if you don’t give me your evidence that you think everything which has Non-Muslim origins is Haram?[/quote]

Everything which has non-Muslim origin is NOT Haram. We all agree with it. This argument is widely used by Barelvis when discussing bid'ah. I've also seen modernists and secularists using this argument with Ulama that the loudspeaker which you use was also invented by non-Muslims. Either you stop using their technologies, inventions OR start taking part in their religious/cultural practices.

[quote]IF you don’t actually believe it then we don’t have a disagreement so let’s proceed forwards.

I think that you are mistaken between ACTS of WORSHIP and treatment. What is described in the OP is not an act of worship! It is a form of treatment like taking aspirin etc

The ARGUMENT made by brothers is that this is NOT mentioned in the Qur’aan and Sunnah so its impermissible and I am saying that this is NOT an act of worship, it is a treatment.

It could potentially be permissible.
It could potentially be impermissible.
It is NOT an act of worship so nothing to do with Hindus or Barelwees, it’s a T-R-E-A-T-M-E-N-T and lets take the case of Aspirin and we check:

DOES the treatment itself conflict or contradict with Qur'aan and Sunnah?
DOES anything within Aspitin contradict with Qur'aan and Sunnah?
Now apply the same for the treatment and check with Ulama.

Teh key confuision for you is that this is NOT an act of worship.


Islam has not only taught us how to worship.. It covers every aspect of our life. Even if it is only a treatment, we need to be sure that it does not involve anything unislamic.

If I have a medical problem, I will go to a Doctor. If the procedure mentioned in the OP is only a treatment, then why do people go to Ulama and Muftis for such treatments. Why are these treatments endorsed and promoted by Madaris?

Ok Barelvis use a precautionary measure by keeping Nalain paak in their homes, shops etc. You tell me if it is permissible or not?

1. It is NOT an ACT OF WORSHIP
2. It is ONLY a TREATMENT
3. It does not contradict Quran and Sunnah.

Is it permissible to hang chillies/lemons outside your house?

1. It is not an ACT of WORSHIP
2. It is only a TREATMENT
3. It does not contradict Quran and sunnah
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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 11:40

bint e aisha wrote:
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Answers in steps:

Salah (Namaaz) is an act of worship, eating Biryani is NOT an act of worship! It can become an act of worship (if done according to Sunnah) but fundamentally and primarily eating Biryani and praying Fajar are not the same thing.

So there is a difference between praying Fajar and eating Birynai.

Please let me know your thoughts and then I will proceed with the rest of your question.

This is NOT the answer to the question, it is a start of a discussion.  I know eating Biryani has nothing to do with the issue, this is to make you see a point!

Concerned wrote:
View original post

Nope! Your ego is too big to admit that you throw concepts around which don't fit the situtaion.

We are discussing a treatment and in Islam it has nothing to do with the fact you fail to grasp the issue.

All you have to do is climb down from the Cloud cuckoo land and say that I threw some concepts around which don't fit this scenario.

Question:

Give the logical or Shariah evidence for finishing the entire Saheeh Bukhari?

This question isn’t about Hadeeth. This question is about Shaeeh Bukhari

 

 

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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 11:45
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Agree!

But if there are Haram ingredients in Biryani, it will become an act of sin. Just saying..
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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 11:49

bint e aisha wrote:
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Absolutely correct! but not sin it will become Haram (much more then sin).

Now slowly pause and read this and tell me what you disagree with.

  1. Praying Fajar is an act of worship.
  2. Eating Biryani is not an act of worship. It is an act which is permissible in Islam. We will look at the ingredients and see if the Biryani is Haram or not!

This is not the answer to your question. This is a very slow start and once you admit and see that YES there are differences between acts of worship and “ACTS”, we will get to your Barelwee and Hindu examples.

Explain to me why you said everything in Islam is an act of worship, I have just shown you that there is a difference between praying Fajar and eating Biryani.

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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 11:56
Muadh brings up the concept of logic, and insists I discuss logic. Bro, you brought up logic, you discuss it with yourself :).
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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 12:00
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Alright you have repeated the same thing again. You are going very slow, please increase the pace.

Where did I say everything in Islam is an act of worship? I said Islam covers all aspects of our life. Yes everything CAN become an act of worship if done according to Sunnah and with correct intentions.
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#60 [Permalink] Posted on 5th March 2018 12:14
bint e aisha wrote:
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I am deliberately going slow. Everything is Not an act of worship and that was my point and you agree so lets move on.

Barelwees INSERT issues into acts or worship or invent acts or worship or corrupt acts of worship and these are examples:


Gayyari Shareef, Meelad with Bidah acts

Calling upon the dead for their needs

OR saying that such and such action carries such and such reward


All of these are actions which require evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah.

The T-R-E-A-T-M-E-N-T described in this thread is not an act of worship i.e:


Nobody has claimed that it is from Sunnah

Nobody has claimed that it carries certain rewards


Both or either one of them is what Barelwees do and would deem it to be Bid'ah.

The confusion you have is you that you are claiming that it may have Hindu origins, so what? Ayurveda has Hindu origins so which Scholar in Islam has declared the entire practise of Ayurveda to be Haram?

We will look at each and every individual treatment in Ayurveda and determine if it is Haram or Halal and Ulama will issue a judgment?  
Chinese Acupuncture is originated in Buddhist China, which Scholar has declared it to be Haram? We will look at each and every Chinese Acupuncture treatment and check to see if it is Halal or Haram.

Two further points:


I don’t know if this practise comes from Hinduism or not, I have no idea. I am making a point that even Ayurveda and Chinese Acupuncture treatments “may be Halal”

Then the brother keeps talking about the effectiveness of treatment. That has NOTHING to do with something being permissible! A “Halal” Ayurveda treatment may not help a patient but so what? Does it make it Haram? No!


Important Point before you reply!


If a Hindu chants or recites something on an Ayurveda medicine that may make it Haram

If a Buddhist reads some kind of incantation on medicine, that may make it Haram


But thousands of Indian Muslims women Ayurveda Shampoo who told you that its Haram?

Ayurvedic Medicine (Hindu Origin):

Ayurveda is a traditional, natural system of medicine originating in India some 6000 years ago developed by seers (rishis) through centuries of observation and experimentation. Hinduism and Buddhism have been an influence on the development of many of Ayurveda's central ideas. Ayurveda is a Sanskrit word that when literally translated means “science of life” or “practices of longevity.”

In the case of Ayurvedic medication, SANHA does not possess the knowledge, expertise and resources to issue a blanket ruling for every ayurvedic product. Each item will have to be evaluated on a case specific basis.

Homepathy (Freemason Origin):

www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/36501

It is permissible to take such medication provided the medication contains Halal elements only, administered by a medical professional and does not contain any proven medical harms.

darulfiqh.com/is-homeopathy-medicine-halal/

In the absence of any alternative, it will be permissible to make use of homeopathic medicine on condition a competent Muslim doctor advises the use thereof

Hypnotheraphy (Pagan Origin):

askimam.org/public/question_detail/11343.html

If hypnotherapy is a means of cure and there is nothing unIslamic in the therapy, then it is permissible. The livelihood derived from hypnotherapy will be Halaal.

FINAL COMMENT:


I believe half of these treatments to be ineffective, useless, waste of time and money

I cannot explain logically how they work

I am not an expert on any science behind these (or lack of it) :-)


BUT that has nothing to do with them being permissible in Islam and that is my point!

The shampoo below can be Halal or Haram based on ingredients etc but not because it is Ayurvedic (i.e. Hindu origin)






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