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wazifa from DU Deoband: black pepper,fire,#11

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#136 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 10:25
Off topic slightly, but what else comes in Hinduism or has it's roots in Hinduism too? Doesn't mean there is no space for research for treatment.

  • Rebirth - like Life after Death
  • 7 ritual circuits (Saat Pheras)- like tawaf
  • Head covering for females - like hijab
  • No form of God and only One God - Tawheed
  • No idolatary - Tawheed
  • There is no image of God - Tawheed
  • Final Prophet to come from Arabia - Muhammad (saw)
  • This Prophet will have many companions - Sahaba
  • Swarg - Jannah
  • Narg - Hell fire
  • Shashtang - Sujood
  • Charity - Sadaqah - Zakat
  • Vrat - Fasting
  • Pilgrimage to the centre of earth - Hajj
  • Mahabharata - Holy War


And the list can go on. But they too have distorted their religion.

Just because it has it's roots from the past, doesn't mean it is all incorrect, it needs clarification.

Yes we should not need to look into other religions to seek knowledge as Umar رضي الله عنه was also told not to look into the books of the Jews/Isralites etc

Cupping is known as a Chinese treatment - When I visited Pakistan, I actually asked an Alim in a small village about Hijama and he had no idea what it actually was and when I showed him, he thought it was from the Chinese tradition but was then able to relate Chinese cupping to Hijama.

Using the words of Allah added with medication will have additional benefits and removal of any false beliefs that the cure lies strictly in peppers only for example.

The medication/treatment must not hold any non Islamic religious inclinations. But if a method is tried and tested without breaking the laws of Shariah, then there is no problem in that.

To Conclude, Mufti Saab has said what we have been saying all along:
Mufti Faisal al-Mahmudi wrote:
It is thus, in principle, as long as the solution/treatment has been well researched by specialists and it does not have un-islamic elements, then utilizing such avenue is permissible.
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#137 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 10:53
Very good. You've taken a part of the fatwa and ignored what Mufti Sahab said afterwards.

Mufti Faisal Niazi wrote:
However, it must be kept in mind that if these solutions are taken from other religions, there is a fair chance of it having taʿẓīm (honoring) of their deities involved. In such a case it will be absolutely prohibited. Moreover, if the procedures is customarily known to be associated with non-muslim culture, then it will be impermissible to use it as well. [3]

In view of the above, all the points which you have mentioned must also follow the same guideline. If the procedure is culturally known to be depictive of hindu customs, then you must avoid them.
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#138 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 11:11
We are back to squear one sister.

The treatments are not using their mantras and hocus pocus stuff.

Simple tried and tested ingredients/methods.

Like I said, When In Pakistan - Had I said to the Alim that I am going to perform cupping on you and it will remove bad blood from your body, just like they have been doing for over 5000 years (Islam is less than 1500 years old) - wouldn't he say that we can't use it as it is customary to Chinese (Bhuddists)

The known deceptive methods like the use of mantras and charms are not being used - They are also not being used as charms like they do in other religions. They are being used as medication/treatment without any of the negative stuff.
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#139 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 11:19
Hijama has categorically been stated in Ahadith. It is not only a treatment but also an act of virtue.

Regarding what you said about similarities between Hinduism and Islam, you must've heard Zakir Naik on this topic, but your argument is flawed with all due respect.

Please don't compare their 7 pherey with Tawaf. Reminds me of Tariq Fateh. Humbly requesting you to edit it, please.
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#140 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 11:43
bint e aisha wrote:
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The 7 ciruits was only showing the roots of Hinduism.

Anyways, Hijama was known to the Alim - But he never knew what it was and how it was done. But he knew or had seen Cupping as a Chinese myth/treatment. He had no idea that Cupping was actually Hijama. it was the first time he'd seen it. As far as he was concerned, cupping had no basis in Islam.

Finally lets look at the Mithai (sweets)

Mithai is Halal if eaten correctly but it can be Haram if eaten incorrectly.
Mithai as a sweet is permitted, but it also has it's Hindu roots and they call it Prasad. Prasad aka Mithai is Haram.

Where do we draw the line? We draw the line as soon as it includes their beliefs and practices associated with thier religion. Without that, the same Mithai is Halal.

Herbs and spices used as medication is fine as long as we don't associate any of the treatments to other religions - Hence experimented, tried, tested and approved by Ulama. If the treatment is not tried, tested and approved by the Ulama, we don't use it.

I think lets leave it. At least your not indulging in the wrong acts, which is the most important thing. We were simply trying to say that there is a fundamental difference in their ways and how we would practice a treatment.
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#141 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 11:55
7 pherey CANNOT be compared with Tawaf. There's a world of difference between the two.

Anyways I have complete itminan with Mufti Faisal Niazi's answer and there is nothing wrong if you're following Darululoom Deoband or Mufti ARM. As Mufti Faisal says:

"Follow the one you have trust without thinking negative of the other ulama'."

Wassalam
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#142 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 11:56
Very fitting and to conclude on a light note:

Halalified YT Audio


Another Fatwa from Deoband

www.darulifta-deoband.com/home/en/Dua-Supplications/16399

Assalamualaikum,I was asked of an amal regarding cure for evil eye(nazar),i want to clarify whether it is allowed or not. The act is - Take 7 red dry whole peppers n read 'salamun qaulum mir rabbir raheem' 7 times on each pepper n blow on it n then burn it,if it gives odor then the person is not effected by evil eye n if it doesn't give then the person is effected n will be cured.If this is not allowed then please give any dua for it (nazar).
Answer : 16399Published on: Sep 17, 2009
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

(Fatwa: 1532/1535/M=1430)

One can perform the abovementioned amal for curing evil eye. There is nothing wrong in it as per the Shariah.

Allah knows Best!

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband
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#143 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 14:44
Just to clarify about the black dot, it is allowed due to serving a legitimate purpose, i.e. conceal a beautiful feature or make the face appear less beautiful or divert the attention of the looker from the beauty.

Also I have highlighted for Abu Muhammad once again that the scholars from Islamweb do not see the treatments we are speaking about In this thread as permissible treatments. From all of their responses it is clear that they do not consider using incense,salt and peppers as permissible cures for the evil eye. They would allow for such cures to be used for "physical regular" sickness.

Quote:
here is no harm in this if it is intended to conceal the beauty of the baby and shield him from the evil eye.

Ibn Al-Qayyim may Allaah have mercy upon him wrote, "Chapter: Among the treatment for the evil eye and seeking protection from it is to conceal the beautiful features of the person who is feared to be affected by the evil eye with something that would ward it off; Al-Baghawi said in his book Sharh As-Sunnah that ʻUthmaan, may Allah be pleased with him, saw a handsome boy and said, 'Blacken the dimple in his chin lest the evil eye affects him.'" [ Zaad Al-Ma’aad]

However, if people believe that drawing the black dot has a real effect in itself, then this is a false belief, and it is impermissible for the Muslim to act upon it. Scholars stated that it is impermissible for the Muslim to believe that something brings about benefit or wards off harm unless proven by the Shariah or by tangible proof.

Shaykh Saalih Aal Ash-Shaykh may Allaah have mercy upon him said, "People have countless false beliefs regarding warding off the evil eye. In brief, anything that they use while believing that it is a reason in itself while Allah did not legislate nor decree it to be a means of achieving such an objective, it is impermissible to use it.


www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Optio...

Also, except the mithai, all of the examples brought by Abu Muhammad such as tawaf and cupping etc and their link to Hindu tradition does not apply to this discussion as all of those practices are taught in the Quran and sunnah.

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#144 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 14:56
Jzk Brother.

The Hindu stuff was mentioned as "off topic" and that it was only mentioned to show roots can be found in other places too.

The Chilli method can also be found amongst the Italians and Ancient Greeks.

As long as we aren't mixing any of their religious beliefs or using them as charms and amulets, and if the methods are tried, tested and approved by our Ulama as a treatment, then certain methods can be applied just like medicine.

You guys are mixing other religions with Islam and assuming that this is what we are doing. We are not mixing other religious beliefs into Islam. We are simply stating that as a treatment - there are other ways. It's just by chance that these other religions also practice this in their own ways with mantras etc.
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#145 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 16:43
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

I have come to check the thread, but it seems to be too long. Someone please give me a tldr; and then basic question/clarification regarding my answer, insha'Allah I will try to be as clear as possible.

Please do note, the reason the answer is more on an usooli/principle level is especially because I am neither hakeem nor an Amil (in amaliyaat).

Jazak Allahu Khairan

Wassalam
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#146 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 16:58
JazakAllah Mufti Saab for responding.

The question basically is based upon a fatwa from Deoband and similar Fatwas and why they are permitted.

There are two opinions here;
1: They got it wrong
2: They have allowed it based on treatment without associating any external beliefs.

e.g.
Quote:
Fatwa 1
Aasalamualaykum, My wife want to stay with Hindu man to whome she loves it is question of iman and also of ezat. Want to ask is there any kind of dua or wazifa to bring wife back home without giving her to eat or drink anything? and keep her in control?


(Fatwa: 663/609=L/1429)

After the Isha Salah, take 11 grains of black pepper and recite یا لطیف یا ودود 1100 times with durood 11 times before and after while thinking your wife to love you. Having it done, blow on the black peppers and put them in burning fire and pray to Allah. Do this at least for forty days.


Allah knows Best!

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband[/quote]

[quote]Fatwa 2:
Assalamualaikum,I was asked of an amal regarding cure for evil eye(nazar),i want to clarify whether it is allowed or not. The act is - Take 7 red dry whole peppers n read 'salamun qaulum mir rabbir raheem' 7 times on each pepper n blow on it n then burn it,if it gives odor then the person is not effected by evil eye n if it doesn't give then the person is effected n will be cured.If this is not allowed then please give any dua for it (nazar).
Answer : 16399Published on: Sep 17, 2009
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

(Fatwa: 1532/1535/M=1430)

One can perform the abovementioned amal for curing evil eye. There is nothing wrong in it as per the Shariah.

Allah knows Best!

Darul Ifta,
Darul Uloom Deoband


The members here are under the impression that we have adopted/accepted Hindu beliefs. However, we are saying that these methods have been tried and tested by Ulama and is not in contradiction to the Deen (aqeedah)

If possible, can you clarify.
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#147 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 17:36

abu mohammed wrote:
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Walaikum Assalam Warahmatullah,

Jazak Allahu Khairan for the brief run down.

In my answer I posted the basic principle. i.e these are from matter of Tibb. So the way they are tackled are slightly more laxed than how we encounter ibaadiyaat etc. 

a. So general research is done into many different ways of solving evil eye, or any other matter. All such tajarubaat are accepted by default, just as any medication is permissible by default.

b. This is until an external element or factor comes into the practice which is muta'aradh ( contrary ) to islamic practices. 

c. See the reference [2] I had mentioned. It talks about a Raaqi who is asking Rasulullah ﷺ that they used to make ruqya in jahiliya, so how should they do now. Rasulullah ﷺ told him to continue doing so except do not utilize shirki / problematic ruqiya. This shoes that there were some ruqiya or some medicinal practice which were acceptable since it did not have shirk in them, even though they were coming from the Jahiliyah practice.

d. So we can utilize the tibb/naturapathy etc of other religion for our research into the matter of tibb/ruqiya etc. as long as there is no shirk in them. BUT how would we know whether a certain practice has any shirk attached to it? This is why this field is kept to the specialist who know the background and basis for these practices well. Many fatawa from mutaqadimeen mention clearly that ruqiya or ta'weez in an ajami language is not permissible except that the one knows that whats mentioning within it is not shirk. i.e the expert knows what it is about. This is also the basis for Ml. Thanvi rahimahullah permitting and using numerals in the ta'weezat since as an expert they knew what is right in them and what is not.

e. So, now having understood that some of these practices, even though coming from non-islamic origins are tibb practice and not necessarily religious practices. We can move over to the second aspect.

f. Sometimes, even though some practices are non-religion tib based, but they gain a unique shi'aar of another religion. In indo-pak we have many such activities. For example, pouring water over body may be a natural tibb method to ward of evil eye (as also utilized in some ahadith). But if you do it as part of shinto ritual for removal of evil spirits, suddenly that ritualistic practice even though it is same dousing in water, becomes a non-islamic shi'aar. Someone seeing you do it, would think that perhaps you are shinto or something. Similarly, if an amal practice is natural and general, which ought to be permissible under the general rule, but it is so affixed with hindus, then even this practice would become makruh due to tashabbuh. This is what I have highlighted in the later part of answer.

g. [Since I am not an expert] and since the questioner is clear that such practices are considered hindu in their place, I wrote the answer from that angle. Hence, if merely burning chilli as a pratice does not involve the above 2 aspects (i.e shirkiyat, or shi'aar of non-islamic religion), then by general rule they ought to be permissible. But then again, this is for the specialist aamil who is more or less deeni alim as well to decide.

h. The fatwas from DUD and MARM are perhaps depictive of this. They are given by those who understand that these particular practice do not entail shirk, nor tashabbuh with hindus hence permissible to use.

i. I recall an answer from Mufti Mahmud Gangohi rh. mentioning that جھاڑ پھونک (such practices) , as long as free from above can be done by a muslim but cannot have it done by a non-muslim. This is because by having it done from a non-muslim, there is ta'zeem of his religion indirectly, even though the practice itself is general. This shows that technical level of permissibility is in its place, but hikmat demands a little more sternness. 

I hope this clarifies insha'Allah.

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#148 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 17:50
Alhumdulillah. JazakAllah for that.

This is why I said to the sister, that it will also depends on how the question is asked, she came straight in with Hinduism! That automatically gives a different perspective.

In England, where British Muslim's may not know of these Hindu customs, will not ask in reference to Hinduism, they would've asked as a non religious question for medicinal purposes.
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#149 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 18:30
Jazak Allahu khair mufti sahib

Quote:
BUT how would we know whether a certain practice has any shirk attached to it? This is why this field is kept to the specialist who know the background and basis for these practices well.


Another purpose of this thread was to find out the reason and purpose behind using pepper and smoke to cure the evil eye or jinn possession.

Some members said that the properties or scents of some items like peppers , coconuts and smoke cures the effects of the evil eye, or affects the jinn.

If this is true, then would we have to assume that the wazifa mentioned in the OP is to cure the man from the evil eye or from a jinn. If not , then What would be the reasoning or mechanism behind the man doing the wazifa and the woman being cured from the evil eye or jinn, seeing that she is not in the presence of the pepper or smoke. Would this not be like magic, or using jinns? From the query in the OP alone, we don't even know if anyone is suffering from the evil eye or jinns.

I appreciate you said this is not your field, so if you are unable to answer that is understandable.
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#150 [Permalink] Posted on 9th March 2018 18:57
Very well explained Mufti Sahab! May Allah ta'ala reward you immensely. Ameen

So to conclude this burning of chillies will not be permissible for the Muslims of Indo-Pak because it has become a shi'aar of Hinduism in this region. However there's nothing wrong with Muslims practicing it elsewhere.
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