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#91 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 10:16
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
You and Professor Maripat Saheb are choosing to not believe overwhelming and credible evidence of Dr Zakir Naik and IRF practises which is different to me choosing not to judge the Eemaan of individuals. Nowhere have I called Dr Zakir Naik a Kaafir or doubted his Eeeman.[/quote]

I do bear witness that I do not doubt that the Dawah work of Dr Zakir Naik is genuine. I do not find the allegations of staged acceptance of Islam credible. The amount of lies in these allegations has to to be much larger than the truth. I do not believe these allegations.
[quote]
There is a difference of night and day between what I am saying and what you two are doing.

You just insinuated as if I am in collusion with a sister - kindly avoid such flippancy.
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#92 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 10:29

Maripat wrote:
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Professor Saheb,

I do apologise, immediately.

I didn’t mean you are in collusion (personally), I meant that you are coming from similar background (as I have understood it).

What makes you doubt the knowledge of those who have on the ground and direct information of the issues?   Before yesterday I didn’t know much about that India Times (or whatever Media outlet it is) and their article. I knew Indian Media had looked into Dr Zakir Naik.

There is no doubt about the corrosive, divisive and sectarian stance of Dr Zakir Naik, we have his speeches gong back over a decade on Peace TV (and before) but you are brushing it under the carpet.

You are also avoiding commenting on “I am Hindu” statement which is directly in front of you. Do Muslims of India say that? Do you and anyone you know say openly “I am a Hindu?”. Are we making this up? 

Aqeedah:

  1. Kindly say that "you are a Hindu" as per the principle in this Video.
  2. Also say that put Islam aside and lets be a Muslim.

Halalified YT Audio

How far do you go to make PR stunts and Media manipulations in India? It’s easy for Indian Muslims to start saying “I am a Hindu”…wouldn’t it go a long way to resolve all the RSS-VHP attacks?

Allahu-Akbar!  What will it take for you to at least doubt your positon just a tiny bit?

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#93 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 10:47
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:

Professor Saheb,

I do apologise, immediately.



I didn’t mean you are in collusion (personally), I meant that you are coming from similar background (as I have understood it).
[/quote]

Accepted.

Quote:
What makes you doubt the knowledge of those who have on the ground and direct information of the issues? Before yesterday I didn’t know much about that India Times (or whatever Media outlet it is) and their article. I knew Indian Media had looked into Dr Zakir Naik.
[/quote]
I got similar negative reports about him from very reliable people well placed on the ground.
I rejected these reports about him because of the obvious jealousy of our own people towards Dr Naik's success.

[quote]
There is no doubt about the corrosive, divisive and sectarian stance of Dr Zakir Naik, we have his speeches gong back over a decade on Peace TV (and before) but you are brushing it under the carpet.

I am very upset with the Salafi influence in general and hence I am not refuting you on this account.
Rightly or wrongly I have come to the conclusion that if Dr Zakir Naik can not that poisonous is he allows Maulana Salman Hussaini Nadwi Sahab to criticize him on his own stage and inhis own programme. Please remember that our Deobandi establishment will never allow this kind of critical look at our Maslak or or our significant figures.

Salafis are a problem and Dr Zakir Naik might turn out to be like them but at the moment I do not feel alarmed by him in this matter. It will be very silly of him to waste his Dawah success in exchange for that hideous ideology that is hated by non-Muslims and that can not be carried by the modern youth who temporarily fall into their trap. Please remember the example of Yasir Qadhi. Even in SF days I saw that YK had come nearly a full circle back to Deoband type stand.

[quote]
You are also avoiding commenting on “I am Hindu” statement which is directly in front of you. Do Muslims of India say that? Do you and anyone you know say openly “I am a Hindu?”. Are we making this up?

Aqeedah:

Kindly say that "you are a Hindu" as per the principle in this Video.
Also say that put Islam aside and lets be a Muslim.

Halalified YT Audio

Suppose you call me Maripat Abu Adil Al Hindi. Will it be a Kufr allegation against me? Hardly.
What Dr Zakir Naik is saying in such videos should be taken in that spirit only. Geographically I happen to be Hindi. Geographically Hindu is a person who lives in Hind and Arabs would call them Al Hindi.
If you try to pin Dr Zakir Naik down theologically on this issue he most probably back out and we can not even accuse him of misguiding people. please do not get distracted by this kind of apologetics.

Have you listened to Dr Israr Ahmed's take on Sir Syed's version of Islam - Sir Syed being an early stalwart in Ahlul Hadith regime. It was pathetic - I am talking about Sir Syed's version of Islam.

Of course Dr Zakir Naik is alive and we can question him. That is what Maulana Salman Hussaini Nadwi Sahab did. I am not for drawing blood on this issue. My advice to you too is to calm down. If Dr Zakir Naik pushes further his divisive agenda rather than Dawah then we shall think about it.
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#94 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 11:00

Maripat wrote:
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May Allah Ta’ala bless you for your kindness and benevolence (Ameen).

Dr Akram Nadwi explained to us in our Arabic grammar class that Arabs called India “Hind” because it comes from the same origin as Handasa (mathematics, engineering) i.e. Arabs believed that people of India invented or advanced the science of Mathematics.

He said that Arabs believed Indians to be smart and intelligence and had a romantic notion of “Al-Hind” a distant land of wonder and enchantment

“Hind” DOES NOT come from “Hindu”!

Dr Akram Nadwi (HA) is:

  1. Indian
  2. Student of Shaykh Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi (RA)

www.almaany.com/ar/name/%D9%87%D9%86%D8%AF/

اسم علم مؤنث عربي، كان لقباً لكريمات العرب على اسم دولة الهند البعيدة والحافلة بالعجائب، أو هي السيدة الثمينة التي تعادل مئة من الإبل. وقد ينسبون إليها فيسمون: هندي، هندية. كما يسمون: هندة، وهُنَيدة. وهو اسم عريق في القدم مثل هند بنت الخُسّ من أهل الدهاء، ولها أخبار كثيرة.

To this day, Arabs call Engineers “Muhandis” it doesn’t mean that Engineers are Hindus!

To this day, Arabs call faculty of Engineering “Kulyatul-Handasa”, it doesn’t mean that faculty of Hindus!

Dr Zakir Naik has repeatedly demonstrated that he is clueless when it comes to Arabic!

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#95 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 11:16
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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So clearly we can take neither his Fiqh not his Arabic seriously. So why burn our energy on such issues?

The question again boils down whether he is an assset of the Ummah or not. In this regard we got to make our own opinion.

I am waiting for your own decision about him.

I am waiting for brothers and sisters opinion about him.

So that we can go ahead about solving those problems of Ummah that we can solve.

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#96 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 11:44

Maripat wrote:
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You tell me.. do you want to take Arabic from a student of Shaykh Abul-Hasan Ali Nadwi (RA) or Dr Zakir Naik who has problems with even basic Tajweed?

The stupidity of Dr Zakir Naik is manifest in two simple points:

  1. He claims that the term Hinduism was coined much later (he is on record saying this) due to Geograghy
  2. YET he claims that Arabs called India “Hind” because of affiliation with Hindusim

Arabs have been calling India “Hind” much before Islam and without ascription to Hinduism and it has nothing to do with “Hinduism”. Do you think that Arabs called Christians “Nasraan”? or Palestine “Yahodaan”? Do you actually believe that Arabs ascribed names to religion and their knowledge of distant lands was so advanced that they actually researched religions and then called regions that?

Maybe today (some of the racist Arabs) call Indians Hindus due to lack of knowledge but I know FOR A FACT that Arabs are not ascribing “Hindusm” to Indian Muslims…It’s a term which Arab Ulama and Indian Ulama use all the time. It is neither derogatory nor insulting.

You are Maripat “Hindi” which is not Maripat (Hindu) but Maripat (belonging to geography of India).

Here is the an example of Shaykh Abul-Hasan Ali Nadwi (RA) about his King Faisal Award

kfip.org/ar/sayyid-abul-hasan-ali-al-hasani-al-nadawi/

وُلِد الشيخ أبي الحسن علي بن عبد الحي الحسني الندوي في قرية تكيا بولاية أوتار يراداش بالهند سنة ١٣٣٢هـ/١٩١٣م. وتنتسب أسرته إلى الحسن بن علي، رضي الله عنه، وأبوه هو العلامّة والمؤرخ الهندي الكبير السيد عبد الحي بن فخر الدين الحسني، صاحب كتاب نُزهة الخواطر وبهجة المسامع والنواظر في تراجم علماء الهند وأعيانها. وقد توفي أبوه وتركه صغيراً، فساعدته أمّه في تعلّم القرآن.

Do you think they are calling his father a “Hindu”? Dr Zakir Naik is an M-O-R-O-Nand those Indians (who watch Youtube) and are duped by this ignoramus and MAHA-M-O-R-O-N

Not you and Sister but those who have shared the clip and think that they are "Hindus" because of Mujtahid Dr Zakir Naik’s ignorance of Arabic language!

Maripat wrote:
View original post

He is not an Asset of any kind. He is a divisive, corrosive, sectarian bigot who staged events to get money from Arabs (of the Middle East). As a Muslim, I hope and pray that he is protected and safe (Ameen).

But let’s not elevate him to be Imam Bukhari (RA), call him for what he is.

A divisive Bigot!

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#97 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 13:35
Hindu?

When I meet many of my Arab clients, they ask me "Pakistani?"

I reply, "La' Bakistani wal Hindi - Yaani, shway shway :)" so he replies, "Kashmiri?" and then we clear up the confusion.

Lets look at this from a British point of veiw now and tell me how it sounds. "Are you a Paki?" Will you say you are a Paki? ;) Of course one would like to call themselves a Pakistani instead of a Paki.
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#98 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 14:55
Maripat wrote:
I am waiting for brothers and sisters opinion about him. [/quote]
I like his work on Dawah and his comparative religion work but not beyond that.

I have posts and blogs against him on a few Fiqh topics (including Taraweeh) and where he is misleading people (till today) to give their Zakat money to a TV Channel.
[quote="Dr Zakir Naik"]The greatest challenge Islam and Muslims face worldwide is the distorted and prejudiced “popular media” onslaught against Islam and Muslims. In response, one of your best choice to give your Zakaat and Charity in Allah’s way is to support Peace TV, telecasting ‘Free to Air’ 24-Hour state -of-the-art Islamic Television programmes to over 200 million people worldwide in English, Urdu and Bangla… correcting the false propaganda against Islam and Muslims.


Conversions

I don't believe they are hoax conversions. So what if there are professionals that do this for a living. I can accept however that the conversions had been done prior to their televised conversion when in reference to the lecture and what bought them to Islam.

Such an accusation of hoax conversions is also questioning all those who convert off air, or in privacy. It also an accusation on those conversions that the other presenters are honoured to perform, like Yusuf Estes etc who are connected to Peace TV.

Funding

So what if Arabs are funding his Dawah? to them (probably) and to me, that is Sadaqah Jariah (although they maybe manily doing it due to his aqeedah, so what?)

They are probably in the hope the Allah will fogive them for what they have done and continue to do.

Even till now, the punishment of Abu Jahal is less on a Monday's due to his charity on the birth of RasullAllah (saw) as well as the lesser punishment given to the Prophet's (saw) uncle, Abu Talib!

So what if Zakir Naik is paying the reverts after conversion! He is helping them financially to gain further knowledge, to help them when their family go against them when they throw them out of the house and so on.

Dawah

Out of a few, one of the most important things to me in terms of Tabligh (Tablighi Jamaat), is that The TJ's only preach to their own people, Muslim's!

When I questioned them about preaching to non-Muslim's, they give me scholarly advise about the duties one has to take on when reverting a person. One of them is helping to fund them. And just because TJ's can't help with funding, they don't approach the non-Muslim's!

In my very first 40 day jamaat about 20-25 years ago (and my last) I managed to speak to a man who believed in reincarnation. I took them (his wife too) back to the Masjid to join us for more information. But then I found out that we can't afford to give them anything if they were even interested, all they could do was give them words of wisdom.

*Please let's NOT take this topic off track on TJ'ism and those who want to correct me or clarify the TJ matter, please start a new topic. Otherwise your posts will be removed or made into a new thread.

But look at the difference in Dawah of the two. At the same time, I must admit, both are doing very well in their respective methods.

Conspiracy Theories

We've had many conspiracy theories in which you, Maudh, have not thought of the high possibility of truth in any of it. All of these conspiracies are to clear the name of Muslim's. But you (Muadh) are here presenting your theory based on first hand knowledge :) that this is all FAKE and then wanting us to believe that he is a devisive biggot!

I think there won't even be a handful of people to give any credence to your consipray theory :)

I appreciate Muslim's can conspire against other Muslim's as mentioned by member Asaaghir but this is no way of the same level.

Mujaddid

Can he, Zakir Naik, be considered a Reviver of the Deen, I doubt it. Plus I can't see his heart and what's inside it and I would not like to be on the receiving end of such questions like when the Prophet questioned a Sahabi for killing someone on the battlefield after he took his Shahadah.

The only conspiriciy if anything is that they have a mission to convert everyone to their school of thought.

Wallahu Alum.
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#99 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 16:30
Maripat wrote:
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Personally saw a very young Dr Zakir Naik live in hometown of Birmingham way before he became world famous and way before Peace TV he appeared at an event, alongside Imam Siraj Wahaj and Dr Jamal Badawi.

I liked the fact that he was taking the accusations against Islam head-on and countering with confidence.
He has done valuable work in this regard. As for being a Mujaddid well Shaykh Ahmed Deedat came before him credit for whatever Dr Zakir Naik accomplished begins with him.

I am not as enamoured with him since he deviated from his originally methodology and started going into issues he is not strong in....and started focusing more on promoting "Salafism".

I also have natural reservation to anyone who becomes too famous and develops a cult of celebrity. But thats more to do with my own temperament.


So if we are going to use harsh tones to criticise Dr Zakir Naik for his lack of commentary on the word Hind... Then we should apply the same criteria against Speakers from our own Maslik who use Fabricated and strange narrations in their talks.

As for all this First Hand knowledge concerning Zakir Naik....I dont put much credence in so called first hand Knowledge, whether it is positive or negative unless there is overwhelming and open evidence.

Usually individuals with personal scores to settle or a sectarian agenda.

So in a nutshell Dr Zakir Naik has done good work in defending Islam...the fact the Kuffar have united against him and his Dawah speaks volumes also done valuable work in raising the confidence of Muslims who had developed an inferiority complex due to being hammered from every corner by the enemies of Islam.


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#100 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 16:38

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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This is a strange thread.

Dr Zakir Naik doesn't understand Arabic and clearly says "I am a Hindu". I have simply raised some points on the matter and people are still Silent that he is perhaps (a little, teeney-weeney bit wrong) to declare himself a Hindu based on his incorrect assumption.

Are we so far gone in adulation that we cannot bring ourselves to label someone who is clearly wrong?

Which one is “My Maslak”? And do you know anyone from "My Maslak" who calls himself a "Hindu" and I have not criticised them?

I will be most grateful if you can notify me of “My Maslak”.

For everybody else, for the umpteenth time, this isn’t about Maslak because if it was about Maslak I would be equally opposing Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) and Dr Zakir Naik who are both “Ghair-Muqallids”. I am condemning Dr Zakir Naik for being corrosive, divisive and sectarian and not because he is “Ghair-Muqallid”.

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#101 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 16:59
Brother Maripat is a Hindustani I believe, correct me if I'm wrong. So he is a person from Hind according to the Arabs. So geographically he is Hindu in context not religion, correct?

Brother Muadh is a Pakistani from Pakistan. So goegraphically he is a Paki according to the racist Brits. But what's funny is that if brother Maripat or myself were seen by these racists, they'd also call us Paki's even though we aren't. They are basing it on the colour of our skin and putting it into context :)

There are good meanings and bad - here is the racist version for Paki in case those not from the UK are aware of this.
Quote:
"Paki" is a racial slur typically referring to people of Pakistani descent, but often indiscriminately directed towards people with perceived origins from the Indian Subcontinent. The slur is used chiefly in the United Kingdom, and is also considered pejorative in Canada.[/quote]

Definition of a Hindu
[quote]Hindu refers to any person who regards themselves as culturally, ethnically, or religiously adhering to aspects of Hinduism. It has historically been used as a geographical, cultural, and later religious identifier for people indigenous to South Asia.

The historical meaning of the term Hindu has evolved with time.



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#102 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 17:15
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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So Zakir Naik got the origins of the word Hind wrong? Hardly a major calamity.

Probably got many other things wrong as well fact is he has done valuable work on Comparative religion.

Dr Zakir Naik calling himself a Hindu because he originates from Hindustan is strange true... but clearly if one looks at it without a biased point of view can tell his intention was to present a counter argument in his discussion.

The fact is any individual who speaks publicly often he gives hundreds of lectures will inevitably make mistakes.

The narration by Maulana Tariq Jameel that ALLAH descended to earth to pray the Janazah of the Prophet (saw) is even more strange then what Dr Zakir Naik stated about the origins of the word Hindu.

youtu.be/u0TLcX7Y53w



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#103 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 17:28
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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As far as first hand Knowledge about Dr Zakir Naik.

Back in the days of Sunniforum there was a First Hand account by brothers praising Akram Awan and his Silsilah then once those Brothers actually investigated their was a firsthand account dispraising Akram Awan and his Silsilah.

Their was a First hand account Praising Mufti A.S. Desai and his groups and then upon further investigation those same Brothers started dispraising Mufti A.S.Desai.

As for the comparison about Dr Israr Ahmed and Dr Zakir Naik well I have come across other Brothers who are complimentary towards Dr Israr Ahmed (rah) whilst having a negative opinion of Dr Zakir Naik.

Reason being Dr Zakir Naik and his organisation have been far more critically sectarian then Dr Israr ever was who by and large avoided such things.

So in that case would it be fair to say that their dislike is sectarian absolutely...If their criticism of Dr Zakir Naik is so absolute that they are unwilling to be even be slightly objective and give Dr Zakir Naik credit for anything.
Especially his work on comparative religion.

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#104 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 18:29

abu mohammed wrote:
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Correction...

Dr Zakir Naik has said that Arabs call him "Hindi" and from there he derived the issue "I am a Hindu". He did not say I am Hindustan therefore I am a "Hindu".

He butchered Arabic and then made Ijtehaad.

My question still stands do Muslims in India say "I am a Hindu" based on even the logic which you are using?

Dr Zakir Naik went a step further and as I have proven that Arabs don't mean "Hindu" when they mean "Hindi".

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
View original post

I don’t think that I have come across this clip before but without investigating, looking into it…It DOES NOT sound right at all.

The issue needs to be investigated in depth but I don’t agree with it at all.

You can find a million other things wrong with Maulana Tariq Jameel as well but Dr Zakir Naik is still corrosive, divisive and sectarian while Maulana Tariq Jameel is not.

If you want to label Tableegh to be “Maslak” go ahead but no way the two are comparable by any stretch of imagination when it comes to bringing Muslims together.

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#105 [Permalink] Posted on 27th June 2017 18:59
Quote:
Dr Zakir Naik has said that Arabs call him "Hindi" and from there he derived the issue "I am a Hindu". He did not say I am Hindustan therefore I am a "Hindu".

You obviously haven't seen his video's on Hinduism and his definition when talking to Hindus when answering their questions. When he responds by saying, ".....by that definition, I am also a Hindu"

I've heard him say it plenty of times in that manner and when has done so in an Arab nation, the Arabs laugh and applaud his response.

Plenty of evidence for it. So your correction is only valid in those situations where he's actually said it like that.

If you want, I'll post links
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