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My Thread on Dr Zakir Naik

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#16 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 10:09

Maripat wrote:
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Those Ulama “ours or theirs” who stoke fires of communalism and sectarianism are equally guilty and should be equally called out for Bias.

Mentioning the actions of “our Ulama” doesn’t make the crimes of Dr Zakir Naik less significant. In addition, Dr Zakir Naik reportedly claimed to be a proud India and proclaimed it to the best country of the world (repeatedly).

When the same “best country of the world” wanted to question him in connection with charges, he decided to flee the “best democratic country of the world” into the arms of a dictator.

The damage this does to the brand of Indian Muslims is colossal, in the eyes of average Indian (citizen), Muslims are outsiders anyways and this has reinforced that notion.

An Indian (Muslims) has outside connections, Islam is an outside religion and Dawah in India is being funded by outside sources.

Let’s get back to Saudi Arabia, did you know that there are over 1500 Ulama in Saudi prisons being tortured as we speak? Did you know that that hundreds of political activists languishing in Saudi prisons, tortured, raped and brutalised?

This is the regime which Dr Zakir Naik has decided to flee to and leave his “best country of the world”.

The coward left everybody else who was too poor to flee to face the Music back in India.

Saaray Jahan say Acha Hindustan Hamara…

If it, sit and face the (legal) Music.

This was about courage, dignity and standing by people who supported him.  I hope that Indian Muslims remember the coward who fled the country and left them in the lurch to face the Media onslaught.

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#17 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 10:22

Zakir Naik’s aide Aamir Gazdar seeks leniency during Ramzan

“During the holy month of Ramzan, Gazdar is fasting and has asked for home food and analogue clock to keep time during Ramzan,” Gazdar’s lawyer Tariq Sayyad said, adding, “In the holy month, fasting time cycle followed is totally different than the regular one. That is why Gazdar has asked for the clock.”

VS

Ramadhan a date with Dr Zakir. MashaAllah

Ramadhan a date with Dr Zakir. MashaAllah. Sk Sudais is his company in Saudi. There are two moments of joy for the fasting believer 1.Breaking his fast and 2. Meeting Allah.

Allah bless my brothers ameen. Share. Care.

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#18 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 10:43
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Clearly there is some thing in Dr Zakir Naik's personality that has arousen your very stingent criticism.

If leaving India in face of possible adverse action is the cause of your concern then it is not justified. Hazrat Haji Imdadullah RA is called Mahajir Makki because he too did precisely the same. In fact countless Ulama did the same. They left either for the Saudia or other places in the erstwhile Ottoman Empire to escape the British wrath. Hazrat Qasim Nanotwi RA went underground. Some Ulama returned to India once the British issues gereal pardon but some did not.

While for many months I have been thinking that Dr Zalir Naik is over reacting in his assessment of what Indian government can do to him I can not call it cowardice - it simply the discretion.

And while there will be many Muslims who are 123 of with Dr Naik but my impression is that overall even Hindus do not find arguments to hate him. There are videos on You Tube where Hindu journalists were defending Dr Zakir Naik because he was promoting communal understanding. This happened duringh the reaction to Dr Naik calling Yazid Hazrat.

Further I do not understand why should a Muslim be handed over to present Indian dispensation when there is no chance what so ever of Dr Naik getting a fair trial or justice. I hold no brief for the Gms but I also would not hand them over to the RSS zealots.

Historically I remember only one strong stand of the kind that you are takeng against Dr Naik. It was the stand beloved Prophet SAW took against those Badri Sahabis RA who made themselves absent at the time of Tabuk expedition. Yet ultimately these Sahabis too were forgiven. So why should we be so strict with Dr Naik? We can still go after him on the GM kind of issues but handing him over to Cow Vigilante or the Indian judicial system at this moment against his wishes is unfair.

Of course you can still spell out the episodes of communalism and poison spreading and hate mongering done by him. We would like to know about that.
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#19 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 11:11

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Let’s take your analysis on face value that it is not possible for Dr Zakir Naik to get a fair trial under the current political circumstances in India

He has still fled (like a coward) and left behind others to face the Music.

Your own analysis defeats your argument!

Surely, he should standby the people who helped and assisted him, should he not?

Why has he left Guzdar and others to beg the Indian Government for Mercy during Ramadhan while he enjoys 5-star treatment outside India?

Your own analysis also betrays your lack of trust in Indian legal system. In an intellectual giant such as yourself has no trust in the Indian legal framework, what chance do common people have? And if you are claiming that whenever difficulty arises people should save their own backside (by fleeing India) and damn millions of Indian Muslims to Hell it’s astonishing!

Isn’t this the same you blame the Pakistanees for? Your famous line

Muslims fled to Pakistan and we (Indian Muslims) are still paying the bill...

Well, let me change the two words

Dr Zakir Naik fled to Saudia and we (Indian Muslims) are still paying the bill...

It is not befitting a person of your calibre and stature to defend a coward!

Let me repeat that this has nothing to do with Ghair-Muqallids vs Deobandees. I have nothing but immense respect and admiration for Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) who was also a Ghair-Muqallid.

I am also not a big fanatical hater of Maulana Maududi (RA). In fact I am not a hater of anyone based on theological or ideological differences.  Believe it or don’t believe it, I don’t really care!

This is about courage, dignity and standing by those who support you.  I have no respect for those who are divisive, corrosive and above all cowards who flee at the first opportunity.

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#20 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 11:24
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I suppose I got to own a few things myself. By now a large number of cases have come to the fore in India where Muslims were freed by the courts after long years in prsion owing to lack of concrete evidence against them.

In the particular case of Dr Zakir Naik I must indulge in some fine tuning. While I do not agree with Dr Naik's own suspicion that he might get tortured in jail I do concur with him that he might be put in jail if he returns to India. This would be unfair because on the face of it he has not done anything that would call for his arrest.

In view of this if he has decided to stay away then he can not be faulted for his precaution. He might be guilty of not showing sufficient courage but in his case I do not know whether I shall show more courage than him.

At the moment in my assessment he is not a coward, only cautious and understandably so.

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#21 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 11:47

Maripat wrote:
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Dr Zakir Naik and IRF have Assets worth millions. Stay in India and defend the allegations against "Islam and Muslims" as you are looking at the issue from an Indian Muslim perspective.Hire the best legal team and go for it.

If a person with millions in Assets won't stay and challenge the Indian Government, who do you expect? An Auto driver to take on the abusive powers of the state?

This sends two signals to Indian Citizens:

  1. Non-Muslims: Islam is alien to India. Indian Muslims have foreign aid and assisted by foreign powers to subvert the Indian culture. In other words foreign states are meddling in the affairs of India
  2. Muslims: If Muslim individuals like Dr Zakir Naik who are educated, professionals, articulate and have Assets worth millions have no chance against the encroaching Hindutva forces, what chances have common Muslims got?

Utterly demoralising what this communal, sectarian coward has done!

The stance and tactics of this coward plays into the mainstream (political) narrative in India. This is exactly what BJP-RSS have been claiming all along that Islam is alien to India and Indian Muslim are Ghaddars (traitors).

No wonder Saudi regime which leaves no opportunity to damage Islam supports him, it plays into the Zionist agenda of the Saudi regime and fits into their (global) role nicely.

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#22 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 12:13
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Here I agree to a very large extent.
Muslims of india have to draw a line somewhere beyond where they have been drawing till now.
And who will be better to do so than Dr Zakir Naik? But the sad fact is that he did not exhibit the requisite courage.

In such situation I have a personal weakness I never get the guts and the courage myself to go whole hog after such people. It is owing to a better assessment of my own level of courage. When i myself fall short I do not have the haert to take others to task.

I all the time keep feeling that our Ulama should be taking bold stands on the issues relevant for Muslims but I still can not be publicly angry with them. I have to offer myself first. But I digress.

I have been mentioning a colleague of mine Professor Ariful Islam of Statistics department. He keeps abusing Ulama because of similar arguments.

A Barelwi friend of mine, a politician, Engineer Saleem Pirzada, keeps fuming at AMU professors for not taking similar risks as you want Dr Zakir Naik to take.

So I suppose I understand your frustration. I also suppose that I have put my own position on the table. We got to keep working on these matters. We are not the best people to break our heads on these stone walls but it looks that we are amongst rare ones who do get heart burns.

(And having said it my last statement is patently false when it comes to those people who have put their welfare at stake for the sake of the Ummah of Rasoolallah SAW.)

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#23 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 12:31
Well if the issue is Dr Zakir Naik not handing himself over to be put on trial. I have a couple of questions.

(1) Did Dr.Zakir Naik abandon his associates, and disappeared without their knowledge or Did he go into exile after mashwarah with his associates and their approval?

(2) How would Dr Zakir Naik, handing himself over for a show trial and public lynching by the media going to benefit the Muslims?
The chances of him receiving a fair trial are Zero... The Indian media will be in a frenzy during the trial and beyond and use this as an opportunity to demonise Muslim leaders and Islamic Organisations wholesale the politicians will use it as a platform to bring in further legislation targeting Muslims.

The fall out from such a trial will be far worse...We had a glimpse of this during the show trials of Muslim figures in Bangladesh, with international media getting in on the act, and government using those trials as a spring board to target other Muslims.

So to believe the Dr Zakir Naik, handing himself over to be tried will be beneficial for muslims, and the ensuing media frenzy will be beneficial for Muslims .......Seriously.

The Most beneficial thing Dr Zakir Naik can do for Muslims of India is to not return?
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#24 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 12:42

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Actually, you raise some important points here.

We are in the midst of Muslims being arrested, kept without charge or subject to humiliation at the hands of the entire state machinery and the well-oiled Media machine.

We have those who sell their souls to the devil and those who fight the issues legally (i.e. Moazzam Baig etc) and stand their ground.

I have been involved in this (in a very small capacity), its soul-crushing and sapping…Believe me your own people abandon you and it feels like the whole world is out to get you. This is the time where it takes guts to stand your ground and really face the possibility that you may be incarcerated for the rest of your lie.

BUT you fight for your innocence

You fight for Muslims

You fight for Islam

Eventually when you win the same people who abandoned you, take credit and come back.

Above all, it gives heart to all other Muslims who find themselves in a similar scenario.

Dr Zakir Naik is a coward who has huge resources at his disposal but decided to flee instead of standing his ground and fighting for Indian Muslims.

It would have given a huge confidence boost to Indian Muslims if he would have assembled a crack legal team and fought all the charges.

It will take just a few legal battles in India for Indian Muslims to realise that the situation is not as dire as it may seem.

You have to be involved in these issues to get what I am talking about.

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#25 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 12:52
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Dr Zakir Naik, could have a crack legal team consisting of Indian Lawyers, and those educated in Harvard, Yale, and Barristers from U.K.

The Trial will be a formality to find him Guilty....Not only the Indian Media but International media will use it as an opportunity to vilify Muslims, the coverage from Indian Media will be rabid.

How is this going to give a confidence boost to Muslims of India? In-fact quite the opposite.

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#26 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 12:59
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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It is related to the theory of peak loads.
You develop muscles only when you use peak loads - loads reaching your full capacity.
If Dr Zakir Naik returns to face the music then it will send a signal to the whole world that Muslims are serious about their stand point.
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#27 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 13:10
Maripat wrote:
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Maybe the theory of peak loads, worked during the industrial age, but we are now in the digital age, the media holds sway over public opinion, and they seek every opportunity to demonise Muslims and Islams. It would be akin to the local samosa seller taking a stand against a gang of bullies, and having the daylights beaten out of him, leaving himself and his family traumatised and no means of earning an income because of his injuries.

If this theory of Peak Loads, did not work for the Bollywood Aamir Khan who was villified and received death threats for mereley speaking out against religious intolerance against Muslims. Dr Zakir Naik has zero chance.

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7...
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#28 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 13:34
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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I understand ya akhi.
Now you get the exact view of what Muadh Khan is saying.
For me and you it is merely a failing of Dr Naik, Kotahi, not going till the end of the rope.
For Khan Sahab it is a big mistake.

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#29 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 13:46

Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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The reason I disagree with you is that Muslim Media, political activism and legal affairs falls far behind the standards what is required. Dr Zakir Naik and IRF have the resources and the know-how to actually take on the Indian Government and tell their side of the story (even if it’s a sham trial) which I don’t believe it will be.

With access to Peace TV and its resources, they could try to cut through the Media fog and try to put their side of the story to the masses.

India has a great tradition of good investigative Journalism and Indian people feast on investigations and expositions.

The “Hazrats” and the “Maulanas” don’t have the ability to take on the Indian Government and Media machine but Dr Zakir Naik and IRF does.

Instead of actually fighting this battle for the Indian Muslims, the coward has cut and run!

And we have giant intellectuals like Maripat Saheb defending the coward simply on Nationalism.

  1. I don’t think that the Indian state is impenetrable
  2. I don’t think that the Indian legal system is as shambolic and corrupt as you two are making it out to be.

I am not saying it because I believe Indians are great harbingers of justice, fairness and equality BUT because India wants to project itself on a global scale to be a developed country…Each scandal hits Indian ambitions that much harder…Kashmir and human right abuses are an embarrassment for Indian (image), not to their sense (of right and wrong).

There are miscarriages of justice in any system and it takes resources but importantly courage to stand your ground and fight it.

The episode with Dr Zakir Naik is sowing the seeds of despondency in the Indian Muslims. If people like Maripat Saheb think Dr Zakir Naik and IRF have no chance in today’s India it’s a truly low moment for Indian Muslims.

Instead of arguing, all Indian Muslims reading this should logoff and start packing to leave the country.

Maripat wrote:
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Maripat Saheb,

You disappoint me.

I thought an ALIG would be looking to take on the system and even dent it (for the next fighter to dent it further), even if not defeat or crumble it. How can an ALIG defend a coward who ran away without a fight?

Your thoughts are very disappointing to me.

Instead of giving hope and courage to millions of Indian Muslims, you are actually submitting to a crooked system, admitting that you are powerless to fight it.

I am extremely disappointed.  An ALIG is supposed to rail against the system, fight it, resist it, not cower down in fear and admit defeat.

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#30 [Permalink] Posted on 20th June 2017 22:44
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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This same Indian Media with its great Investigative Journalism... Has failed to put across the Story of the Genocide and Mass Rape of the entire Kashmiri nation.

You expect that they are going to do Justice for one guy. That too an Islamic preacher who they despise for throwing their propaganda back in their faces, and converting many people too Islam.

In any-case here is Zakir Naik in an interview with Indian Channel a year ago concerning the Indian Medias propaganda against him....... youtu.be/5AKK_G8pAvs

"..Instead of giving hope and courage to millions of Indian Muslims, you are actually submitting to a crooked system, admitting that you are powerless to fight it..."

So Bro Maripat speaking up and then getting himself locked up, on trumped up charges is going to give hope and courage to millions.?




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