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#121 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 11:54

To Deobandees:

I have always stated and still maintain:

The issue isn’t Dr Israr Amed (RA), Dr Zakir Naik or Farhat Hashmi or XYZ, the issue is Deobandi Institutes and Deobandi graduates unable to cope with and connect with present day Muslims. You can issue Fatwa against X and then Y and then Z and then start again with A OR you can honestly and fundamentally reflect as to why Nauman Ali Khan, Mufti Menk and others can usurp a vast network of Darul-ulooms, Masajid and thousands of “Ulama”. This is the most important factor which you need to consider but you won’t BECAUSE it means looking at “Hazrat worship” and critically evaluating the “Hazrat is always right” culture. It’s easier to issue a Fatwa against Dr Zakir Naik then to critically evaluate and improve the system.

You will keep on lurching from issuing Fatwas to loosing supporters until the fundamental and structural flaws in the Darul-uloom system are addressed.

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#122 [Permalink] Posted on 4th July 2017 17:02
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Quote:
Dear honourable and respected (Sir) Professor Maripat Saheb,
Changing Positions:

It is but stones which remain rigid in their stance.

We (humans) process information, analyse facts and articulate our position. Dr (Allamah Muhammad Iqbal (RA) originally praised the discipline of the Qadiyani Jamaat when he looked at the matter purely from a “Punjabi Muslim” perspective. When he actually got to know the beliefs and tactics behind the Jamaat, he absolved himself from Qadiyanees. When he was confronted about his original position and the fact that he had changed his mind, he uttered the famous line which I have written above.
[/quote]
I needed the dry but accurate info and I have got it now.
Quote:
Dr Israr Ahmed (RA):

I have always been admirer of Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) since the days of Al-Huda, long before the English speaking Muslims or those outside of Pakistan have heard of him. As I grew older and consciousness developed (my uncle a stanch Ahl-e-Hadeeth) used to come to our father and praise Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) and his Aqeedah.

Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadeeth (Pakistan) were staunch supporters of Dr Israr Ahmed (RA) UNTIL he made his views clear about Ashari Aqeedah and then they threw the book at him.

Deobandees have opposed him pretty much from day 1 on account of him (not being a Scholar) on similar grounds to what they did with Maulana Maududi (RA). The Deobandees equate and consider them both to be the same and it is (fundamentally) flawed position. Nevertheless, it is their stance.

I have read and heard Dr Israr Ahmed (RA). I have met his students researched his centre (in Lahore and Karachi). There is nothing which has made me change my mind in his person, his organisation and his teachings and his dogma (in general). I do disagree with his views on Jihad and revolution so the agreement is not total but general.[/quote]
Again thank you for the info.
Quote:
Dr Zakir Naik:

I was one of the first people amongst Deobandees to look at the Dawah of Dr Zakir Naik and contact Ulama (including www.askimam.org). I had private discussions with then (student) Abu Hajira that in the Indian Muslim context his efforts should be praised and appreciated. The issue is about a Muslim against (Non-Muslims) of India.

The article is still here:

www.central-mosque.com/index.php/society/avoiding-dr-zaki...

As I began to view Peace TV and delve into Dr Zakir Naik and IRF, I began to get uneasy. They clearly have a divisive, corrosive, sectarian, communal and poisonous agenda. I then made contact with people on the ground in Mumbai and got to know about financial irregularities and fake stage sessions and drama long before Indian (citizens) through Indian Media got to know about it.[/quote]
Thanks for the third time.
Quote:
Based on new and irrefutable evidence, I had to change my view on Dr Zakir Naik. It would have been irresponsible, callous, careless, unethical and immoral for me not to do so. You seem to have not done your research and seem to be sticking to your original premise. As a professor, how can you accuse me of not being able to separate the wheat from the chaff? That is an absurd accusation. Your original accusation that my stance is guided by sectarian concerns (Ahl-e-Hadeeth vs Deoband) is even more absurd because you seem to be a bigger Deobandi then me? In the last 10 +years that you have interacted with me, when you have seen or viewed me to be a dogmatic Deobandi?[/quote]
I understand that you changed your stand on the basis of new data that you got. I respect your decision as I have always done. I also consider you a serious person and I give significant weight to your opinion. I do not consider you a dogmatic Deobandi. My suspicion of disliking Dr Zakir Naik on the basis of sectarian consideration is mainly directed at the normative Deoband crowd in general and my informants from Mumbai and not you.

Quote:
I also view Dr Zakir Naik t be coward who fled and left India and Indian Muslims and abandoned him when things got tough for him. You and Brother Abdur-Rahman disagree with that assessment and clam that it is pragmatism so let’s agree to disagree. I am saying (as someone who has been the victim and suffered) that Dr Zakir Naik has the unique position to raise funds, get a crack legal team and has the ability to make his voice heard despite IRF and Peace TV being shut down. Akhlaaq who was lynched does not!

My impression is that my view on Dr Zakir Naik's courage is not different from yours and hence we need not dissipate energy on it.
[quote]
I am perplexed as to why an Academic of your stature is so acute and obtuse in your vision that you cannot see this point? Effectively, it appears to be that you have given up on the hope and cause of Indian Muslims, there is no ray of light in your opinion and everything is (simply) futile. If Dr Zakir Naik with his resources cannot get justice then NO INDIAN MUSLIM can!

Please convert your distress at the low level of my optimism about the situation of Indian Muslims into a new data point, a new piece of info about the ground reality. For your benefit I shall repeat the info once again.

(1) Many Muslims who were falsely accused of indulgence in terror related offences have been freed by the Indian courts because of lack of credible evidence against them. You are taking it as symptomatic of the good health of Indian judicial system. I most respectfully desire and beg to differ. This is more symptomatic of the growing rot in Indian law enforcing machinary - the executive where innocent Muslims can be put behind the bar for extended periods without any offence.

(2) After the most heinous killing of Graham Steines with his son by putting the van carrying them on fire the Christians took to the courts. In this regards two separate court verdicts deserve our special attention. One court ruled that people (read Christians specifically and Muslims by implication) can not exercise the right to propagate their religion by converting Indians to their religion if there is a fear of public outrage. Now this public outrage can always be manufactured and hence effectively the judge from the majority community simply struck down once and for all a provision in Indian constitution. May I most humbly request you not to take this info as another kilogram in a ton of dry and dull discourse but as symptomatic of how Indian judiciary is slowly but surely inclining towards the Hindu Rashtra. And for the sake of Allah SWT do not try to cast me or any one of my Indian brothers and sisters into a cage where we look like having lost faith in Indian judiciary. It, Indian judiciary, is wonderful and world class but not when it comes to conversions, Hashimpura, Maliyana, the communal riots, the anti-Muslim pogroms, Muslims accused of being involved in terror related offences, cases of riot affected Muslims.

(3) When it came to the case of riot affected Muslims a senior professor Dr Iqbal Ahmed Ansari from our university spent a life time in trying to get justice for the victims. In my view he was amongst rare Muslims who did this work but it required enormous amount of courage. May I add that he tried to do what he did only because there were many courageous Hindu friends who always stood with him. Now that he is gone for some time there is no one to take his place and the most common names in this reagrd, relief for riot affected Muslims, are Hindus like Teesta Seetalwad and late Mukul Sinha.

(4) I am sorry to inform you that it is pointless to chatise me for my academic rigor or courage or lack there of. I not only right but also read what other write and let me assure you that I do not know anyone who asserts more than me in my own circles. If I was writing in Hindi I would not have managed even this much. Same goes for the case if I would have been writing in general public circles and not in a selected Facebook circle.

(5) Every single one of my Muslim friend in my personal circle has that look on his face that I am not well connected with the ground reality and live in some fool's paradise. Thre is precisely one ( a Barelwi) friend who operates at the same level of courage as I do and I will not be surprised if one day he tells me that his courage is derived from me.
[quote]
Aqeedah:

I respectfully submit that you are being disingenuous here and going out of your way to sidestep a fundamental Aqeedah point which goes against you.

Hindi: A person of Indian origin
Hindu: A person who follow Hinduism

I believe that a person of significant Academic stature and learning such as yourself, knows it. Instead of coming clean and informing many (common) Muslims that YES it is an error, you have taken a diplomatic way out and said that you are a Hindi. I don’t believe that you can possibly and sincerely advocate or articulate the position that Indian “Muslims” are Hindu.

I have always respected you for your stature and courage but your accusations are unfounded and unsubstantiated. Your responses also don’t befit your stature as a leading (Muslim) Academic.

No more fruitful results will come out if you beat this track further. There is no deep secrets hidden in this angle and no guidance will ensue from it. If you want any particular credit from me then ask for it. If you want me to apologize for anything specific then too you have to ask me for it. The majority community from India have gone after Dr Zakir Naik for apparently he wants every Muslim to be a terrorist but I have seen his video in this regard and I do not find him guilty. Similarly I do not find him guilty on this Aqeedah issue because the Hindi/Hindu dichotomy can not be clarified.
[quote]
Sir, it is I, who has researched the subject and changed my stance due to new information. It is YOU, who has remained dogamtic on the original premise of defending Dr Zakir Naik (merely) on the basis of his Dawah. Sir, I would like to respectfully submit that it is I who has pragmatically evolved (with the circumstances) while you have remained ideologically wedded to your original positon. How can you as a leading (Muslim) academic blame me or chastise me for my evolution of thought? Dear Sir, am I not displaying maturity, complexity and ability to separate wheat from chaff while you are displaying stubbornness, dogmatism and idealism?

I have clarified my stance on every single one of these points multiple times. I do it now once again.

(1) I am not fond of Salafi ideology and I detest their behaviour.
(2) Dr Zakir Naik calling Syed Salman Nadwi and Kalim Siddiqui to his programmes indicates a willingness to make a common cause with us and I am for appreciating this gesture. The way Salman Nadwi Sahab chestized him for dabbling in Fiqh issues they could also demand that he does not propagate the ideology that he is carrying. Honestly speaking what should be our attitude towards Dr Zakir Naik is at the core of what I am looking for in this thread. In view of this I am not going to accept any accusation wrong doing when it devolves to the matter concerning him. I can only be accused after the decision I make after this thread.
(3) Indeed I fell that his benefits because of his Dawah are more as compared to his harms due to his GM-ship. Of course the decision is upto Deoband. But I simply can not say that I am proud of the first Deoband Fatwa on him - " We do not know who is Zakir Naik". O yeah.
(4) I myself too suspect that I might get classified as a leading Muslim academic if I go public but between friends you should not embarrass me by this kind of praise - you know how difficult it is to deal with public praise and then Ujb. Kindly also do not get discouraged from appreciating brothers and sisters because that is what keeps up their motivation - we got to make a fine balance, life is like Pul-Siraat.
(5) Stubbornness, dogmatism and idealism. You praise me and you bring me down! But I get the point - I might have done the same to you in past. My apologies. Profound and sincere ones.
(6) Stubborn: Many times the info is private and one can not make it public. I can understand that. Thus I shall not push you to make it public. Having said that the circumstances known to me do not warrant that I trash Dr Zakir Naik. Hence my stubbornness and dogmatic attitude. I certainly might be wrong - as you know about some past cases. I do not give my self a class when it comes to making accurate assessment of ground reality. Hence I value those people who have a better acumen in this regard. At the moment it has to be acse of agrre to disagree - as you too said.
(7) Idealism : That I am scared of. Kind tell me more for I have been trying for long to kick this beast out.
[quote]
Yours sincerely,

Muadh Khan

04th of July 2017.

My felicitations on 4th of July. Love and regards.
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#123 [Permalink] Posted on 19th July 2017 06:58
Passport Revoked


Dr Zakir Naik's passport has been revoked for making provocative speeches and spreading hatred.

Really? May I list myself amongst those who disagree?

One of the main themes and strongest pushes in Dr Naik's speeches has been the topic of similarities between Hinduism and Islam. In fact he has only about twenty talks that he keeps juggling and delivering at various places, in India and abroad. None of them can be classified in the category mentioned in this news report.

Unfortunately he is not likely to get even that much sympathy and support that other targets of the Sangh have got in recent years.

But what about Muslims, will they too ditch him in his bad times? This question I can answer. Dr Naik possess views that would classify him amongst Salafis. This sect can with justification be classified amongst the most hardline group of Muslims. The Arab world can be assumed to be in its grip though it can be argued that the main ideological work of the sect was done by the people of Indian origin. Wahhabism is one of the many other qualifications slapped on this group.

In India the Salafis are not the majority. Barelwis are. There is still third group of Islamic interpretation in India - the Deobandis. This can with all comparative purposes be taken as the defining group of Islamic theology.

Both Barelwis and Deobandis have very vehement disagreement with the Salafi ideology. Hence they have disagreement with Dr Zakir Naik.

In a recent interview on video he said that even those people who disagree with him ideologically came out in his support when the government went after him.

Today the powers that be at the center might have managed to have the Saudi Arab and UAE on their side but as the situation of Muslims deteriorates further, as it is today, then the treatment meted out to Dr Zakir Naik will in the years to come will only lead to a gulf between them and India.

(I made above post on the Facebook.)
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#124 [Permalink] Posted on 19th July 2017 14:03
(salam)

I do not agree with Zakir Naik.. have 1st hand reports that most of the questions there are staged.. by no means do i see him any kind of mujaddid..

Yet, would not support handing him over to the sangh brigade at a time where even a high court judge believes the cow should be made a national animal and believes that peacocks reproduce by drinking tears.. (there have been a major overhaul of police.. judges..admins since the sangh came to power)

maripat wrote:
In a recent interview on video he said that even those people who disagree with him ideologically came out in his support when the government went after him.


True.. we do not agree with him.. neither do we agree with the sanghi agenda..

duas..

wa Assalam..
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#125 [Permalink] Posted on 17th August 2019 07:00
Who is Amy Chew?


Malaysia weighs deportation of Dr Zakir Naik

Twisting Dr Zakir Naik's words on people of Chinese origin

A reporter of Al-Jazeerah news network called Amy Chew has written above two reports.

Both of these reports are against Dr Zakir Naik. A reporters brief is to convey the news with out any mixing of personal opinion. But this reporter indulges in free wheeling editorializing.

I have seen similar reports by her that were again Islamophobic.

In fact anti-Muslim content in the Al-Jazeerah reporting is excessively high. It is more of a norm than an exception.

What a perfidy and travesty that Muslim resources are being used to spread hatred and propaganda against Muslims.

It is clear that the stupid honours of the network do not understand the English language and hence are completely unaware of their practical Kufr.

Then there are the Arab world masses who are equally ignorant of the English language and hence unaware of the damage that is being done to Islam and Muslims as well as the Arabs.

Finally even if they can get a grip on the English language the vice like grip of the western attitudes on their own staff is so robust and common place that they will not know that they are working against the very people for whom the network was created.

What a shame.
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#126 [Permalink] Posted on 21st August 2019 07:12
Very Negative Start of the Day


I was reading the left leaning newspaper from south India called the Hindu.

It has a number of articles and news items that do not give good vibes to a Muslim.

The first one is on Malaysia taking action against Dr Zakir Naik.

And I can not forget the following backlog.


Then there is the editorial in the same issue about Free Fall in Afghanistan.

Former director of India's CBI, RK Raghavan, writes about another column with all usual implications.

Then there is another item in the same newspaper about regrouping of IS.

All of these items affect Muslims in India or at the global level and sadly people like me alone lack resources and energy to comment on all of these.

When AB Vajpayee's mask slipped One and Two.
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#127 [Permalink] Posted on 21st August 2019 08:16
Dr Zafarul Islam Khan on Dr Zakir Naik


It is very difficult to speak the truth in India.

Below please find an interview with a Muslim intellectual who is very well known but simply can not gather courage to side with the truth.

*****

Dr Zafarul-Islam Khan on Zakir Naik—What Dr Khan actually said
The Milli Gazette Online
Published Online: Aug 19, 2019
Here is the full text of the questions and answers of Dr Zafarul-Islam Khan given via emailto a journalist of Free Malaysia Today on 18 August, 2019. Dr Khan gave these answers in his private capacity and as a leader of the Indian Muslim community. Nowhere he said that this the opinion of Delhi Minorities Commission or that he is speaking in the name of the Commission. He, in fact, introduced himself as "a writer, scholar and journalist".

with Malaysian PM Mahathir Mohamad

Q.: Where does Zakir Naik stand in the spectrum of Indian Muslim scholarship? Is he an influential force, and how far is he recognised?
A.: He is influential and has a huge following due to his televised debates and Peace TV appearances [Peace TV is owned by him or his company] but he is not a scholar as such. He is a student of Ahmad Deedat whose specialty was holding debates with non-Muslims, especially Christian missionaries.

Q.:. Zakir Naik has sparked a debate in Malaysia, with many non-Muslim groups and politicians here calling for his deportation to India to face money laundering charges. One major complaint among Hindu groups in Malaysia is that Naik's speeches on comparative religion denigrate their religion. What is your view on this?
A.: I think Zakir Naik may be blunt and offensive at times but he does not abuse other religions. Some followers of Hinduism here find it difficult to hear any criticism to their faith by a non-Hindu. Money-laundering cases are allegations yet to be proved but the government on the basis of these charges has attached his properties especially because he has refused to return to India under the circumstances of witch-hunting and official vilification.

Q.: Naik has often spoken about a campaign to get him by the Narendra Modi government and forces of Hindu extremists. How far true is this allegation?
A.: This allegation is true. Since the Hindutva forces have unbridled power since Modi came to power in May 2014, they are misusing it against their opponents, real or imaginary.

Q.: Personally, do you agree with Naik's method of Islamic propagation?
A.: I think he should be more cautious. He used to hold huge open-air televised conferences in parks and stadiums where Hindu leaders used to be invited and "insulted" in their view. More offence was taken of Hindus standing up after His lectures and announcing their conversion to Islam. This offended Hindus.

Q.: Naik has said he would not return to India to face charges because he felt he would not be accorded a fair treatment before the trial, and could be arrested. Your comments?
A.: It is true, under the current official vilification, Naik will not get justice under Modi/BJP government.

Q.: Malaysian PM Dr Mahathir Mohamad said he would not deport Naik because the Indian judiciary would not give him a fair trial. How independent is the Indian judiciary in your opinion?
A.: This is true. Indian judiciary has been quite compromised under the current government which believes in bulldozing its decisions.

Q.: Did Malaysia do the right thing in resisting calls for his deportation?
A.: I think Malyasia did the right thing. Naik will not get justice under the current Indian dispensation.

Q.: Naik recently attracted large crowds in the east-coast state of Kelantan and was given celebrity treatment, despite most Kelantanese not well versed in the English language which is Naik's main medium. Why do you think Naik has managed to attract huge number of fans in Malaysia?
A.: I have no knowledge.

Q.: For background for Malaysian readers, could you tell us a bit about:
a. the Delhi Minorities Commission which you are heading
A.: The Delhi Minorities Commission is statutory body of Delhi State Government with jurisdiction in the State of Delhi. Its task is to protect the designated religious minorities [Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists and Parsis].

b.: your latest works/activities in India
A.: I am a writer, scholar and journalist.

Q.: Anything else you would like to add.
A.: No.

The following was later emailed by Dr Khan to the Malaysian journalist:

Zakir Naik took for real the Indian constitutional guarantees of freedom of expression and right to profess and propagate any faith. In fact, these rights exist more on paper than in reality. Any conversion from Hinduism to another religion is considered a threat to Hindus and the country; and propagation of any religion other than Hinduism is also frowned upon and action may be taken against persons doing this on the plea that it is a threat to communal harmony. In addition, there are umpteen Hindu militias which take the law in their hands, while State apparatus looks the other way, to enforce these Hindutva objectives professed by RSS and supported by its political wing, the BJP which is now ruling India.

Source : Milli Gazette
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#128 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd August 2019 14:46

Email received today on our website

Dear sirs,


"Peace be upon you"

My name is *** and I am based in Malaysia. I was wondering where you are located and who are the principals of your organisation as I would like to inquire and get some additional information and feedback on Dr Zair Naik who is here in Malaysia and speaking at public rallies that are causing unease with many Malaysians.

Please kindly advise at your earliest urgent kind convenience.

"Peace be upon us all"  .

God bless

Response

Dr Zakir Naik is an Indian National and the matter concerns Malaysian people and it’s Government. We are not based in either country and not aware of the facts.

Our disagreement with Dr Zakir Naik over the years was (and is) based on his lack of credentials and expertise and errors in matters of Islamic jurisprudence. This is a specialised field and should be left to specialised scholars who study, research and mater the field of Islamic jurisprudence.

central-mosque.com/index.php/Civil/avoiding-dr-zakir-naik...

When it comes to defence of Islam and invitation towards Islam then the work of Dr Zakir Naik is praiseworthy. As it stands, Indian Government is a Hindu fascist organisation led by a right wing fascist and they are hounding Dr Zakir Naik based on a Hindutva agenda.

People and Government of Malaysia are commendable to have given refuge to Dr Zakir Naik because in today’s hyper partisan (Indian) environment there is no chance that he will receive a fair trial.

The ability to receive a fair trial is a cornerstone of any justice system. The repeated failures of the Indian justice system in addressing rape and lynchings of (Indian) Muslims shows that Dr Zakir Naik will not receive a fair trial.

It is up to the people of Malaysia and Government to decide but expelling Dr Zakir Naik would be a grave travesty not only towards him personally but overall. We hope that Malaysians will continue to be a beacon for human rights.

Thanks


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#129 [Permalink] Posted on 24th August 2019 14:23
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Alhamdulillah your back
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#130 [Permalink] Posted on 24th August 2019 15:52
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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yesterday I was thinking about your posts.
Alhamdulillah you are back today.

I am following your thread since the time of sunniforum.

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#131 [Permalink] Posted on 24th August 2019 20:52
I too was following Colonel Saheb's thread from sunniforum days. The main reason I came to Muftisays is because of Colonel Saheb.
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#132 [Permalink] Posted on 24th August 2019 20:55
Alhamdulillah. Colonel Saheb is back.
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#133 [Permalink] Posted on 26th August 2019 06:36
Masha Allah Muadh Khan is back.
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