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abu mohammed, abuzayd2k, bint e aisha, Abdur Rahman ibn Awf, sipraomer, mSiddiqui
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#376 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2019 05:47
sipraomer wrote:
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1. These senior ulema also appreciate IK. And just like how they are no fan of MFR’s shortcoming, they are no fam of IK shortcoming. So cant use this argument for anything.

2. I am calling him amali hypocrite because of his public actions that effect people. And you just admitted as well he is amali hypocrite because he accuses IK of something he has no proof of, but himself he sits and aligns with liberals secular and mulhids of Pakistan. And if those wikileaks were true about him, then that just adds to his medals.

3. And why will it be haram for IK to use secular liberals in his party, when he is living in a secular liberal country? And why will your Amali hypocrite Imam be okay for aligning and helping secular liberals but when IK does it, you feel insecure?

Was IK a born and bread of madrassa or was your Imam a product of deeni madaris and circle?

Should we expect higher from IK or should we expect higher from your Imam ?

Stop feeling insecure about criticism of your Imam. The bar is always higher for your Imam. We all know who IK was , and where he has come now , and the strides he has made.

We don’t have much expectations from IK, but in representing Muslims he has gone beyond.

Pakistan is a corrupt society when it comes to money matters. Mawlvis and seculars both lie and cheat when it comes to money. IK cannot do anything, until people stop being a cheat.
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#377 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2019 05:50
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So this means you will never talk or discuss any individual here on This forum going forward? Are you sure you can do that?? If you follow through what you are saying, rest assure you will be a wali:) iA
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#378 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2019 07:53
I'll read and respond to other posts later but in this video Amjad Shoeb Sahab says so many things that come crowding to my mind when I think of Maulana Fazl-ur-Rahman Sahab.
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#379 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2019 10:52
Few things :

- Maulana have so far failed to give a clear objective for his movement. Overthrowing a government is not a credible objective at all.

- Maulana was part of all the previous corrupt and incompetent governments and he did not even criticise them, leave alone starting a movement against them.

- The timings for his movement are extremely ‘suspicious’ as the first casualty in it is the kashmir cause, the damage is already obvious even if nothing else happens.

- The reality on the ground is, that once his movement starts, it may lead to much bigger chaos than Pakistan can afford, it may even lead to bloodshed and civil war like situation, the beneficiaries would be the enemies of Pakistan.

- So far, there is no evidence that the ‘all powerful’ establishment is behind him, if not them, who is supporting Maulana ? I am convinced that Maulana can be anything but he is certainly not a ‘sentimental fool’. He would not start such a big move randomly. What is the ‘bigger’ agenda behind the obvious ?

- Imran khan has lost his popularity in masses, he has lost contact with his support base, and has failed to convince people that the hard times today will be followed by unmatched prosperity tomorrow. Nothing positive is even in the pipeline to give people some hope.

That hardly makes Maulana as his substitute though :

Even if IK fails and falls, Maulana is not going to be the next prime minister either. It is the establishment who will benefit not any political party, including that of Maulana....

My puzzle is this, why on earth is he doing it ? What benefit will he get out of it ? Does he have some information about IK that we ordinary mortals don't have ? That the maternal family of IK have doubtful background does not make HIM qadiani, faith is a very personal thing. The famous Mufassir of Quran and grand sufi of Lahore Ml Ahmad Ali Lahori ra was born to sikh parents, as was Ml Ubaidullah Sindhi ra. Their services for Din were exemplary....

That IK is/was secular liberal, so was Zardari/ Benazir/Nawaz...
Maulana supported all of them !

I am not ready to give Imran khan the status which some of our friends give him on the basis of his speeches or claims. I don’t take him as ‘messiah’ or even an ordinary good leader. I would certainly like him to be replaced by someone more competent, if possible, but as for Maulana is concerned, he does not make sense to me....
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#380 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2019 11:26

3rd Time:

Maulana was the head of Kashmir committee from 2008-2018, what did he do for Kashmir?

  1. Maulana is not Secular/Atheist/Jew/Kaafir/Qadiyani etc
  2. Maulana is a graduate of a Darul-uloom
  3. Maulana is a Deobandi
What were/are his achievments?
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#381 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2019 11:35
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Practically NOTHING !

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#382 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2019 16:18
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You have misunderstood my statements. He is not my Imam. I reject democracy and democratic molvies.

Through this system IK can't do anything even if he intends to do anything.
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#383 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2019 16:22
Last Time!

Why Mufti Taqi Uthmani, Mufti Tariq Masaood give Shahadah for Maulana's honesty? Have they been bribed?
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#384 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2019 16:44
Forget Maulana, forget Ik.

This man makes far better speeches. He should be our next PM.

youtu.be/4kZq769y5dw
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#385 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2019 16:53
sipraomer wrote:
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It is better if you follow the reminder you posted.

Don’t indulge in discussing people.
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#386 [Permalink] Posted on 12th October 2019 18:09
As-Saif wrote:
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Is my question too difficult to answer? Got ya!
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#387 [Permalink] Posted on 13th October 2019 02:22
As-Saif wrote:
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Quote:
Pakistan is a corrupt society when it comes to money matters


So how can this corrupt society be sorted out?

When people say that we as a nation and as an ummah are corrupt and we don't deserve khilafa and so on. I ask the question that then how our problem can be solved? So far, our intellectuals have focused on what but have said nothing about 'how'.

We have 90+ years of tabligh, several centuries of madaris and khanqahi system but still we as an ummah are corrupt. So how can it be solved?

The wise people rightly point out that our problem is nepotism. Solve it and we will get better within a decade. However, when I ask how nepotism will be removed the wise guys remain silent.

This is the problem. Any 5 year old will spot out dirty spots in the cloth. The real thing is how it will be cleaned.

You have only pointed out the problem which we all already know. However, you have not succeeded in providing the solution and the how of its execution.
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#388 [Permalink] Posted on 13th October 2019 03:08
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Sipra, my dear friend, what makes you so sure that the khalifa would not turn out to be corrupt ?

Other than ‘khulufa e Rashideen’ ra (and Syedena Umar ibn Abdul Aziz ra), was not every so called khalifa almost as corrupt as any other king ? In fact they were all ‘kings’ wearing the title of khalifa, with immense authority along with great appetite for corruption.

I understand that when you speak of khilafat it is ‘khilafat e Rashida’ in your mind, but such people like khulufae Rashideen are not borne every day...

I also agree that khilafa will grant us a central leadership, may solve our political and administrative problems, provide unity in the Ummah etc but corruption is a moral and ethical issue not political. It requires purification of mind and soul...

Changing democracy or any other system to khilafa is welcome, but it is no guarantee that the person we call khalifa will automatically become less corrupt with the change of his title...

I am not criticising you, I am only inviting you to think !

I am all for khilafa, but even khalifa would need tazkia and still we will have to work hard on the society to make them learn honesty...

In all cases,there are no short cuts. It is a long road to recovery, training our people to be more organised and less corrupt, using carrot and stick together, teaching in schools, using media, doing Tabligh and punishing the corrupt using the force of law...

Only changing the name of the ruler from president to khalifa, changing the name of the system from democracy to shura etc would not do the job :(

Again, I am not criticising you and I AM ALL FOF KHILAFA , but things are not as simple as you think they are...we require ‘major surgery’ not cosmetic measures...
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#389 [Permalink] Posted on 13th October 2019 03:24
Quote:
This is the problem. Any 5 year old will spot out dirty spots in the cloth. The real thing is how it will be cleaned.

When the 5 had old recognises the filth, at first he knows and abstains from it, then it becomes normal and then it becomes second nature.

The filth is accepted and no longer called filth.

Today, filth is normal. Torn clothes is fashion. Tomorrow, cleanliness will be frowned upon and clean decent clothes will be laughed at.

It's our responsibility to teach the 5 year old that it's wrong and not let him accept it as normal. If we have an ounce of neglect, disrespect, acceptance of change, habit of turning the blind eye, then begins the downfall for generations to come.

We need to make the change in the elders, in our selves, in our families, in our friends, in our neighbours, in our neighbourhood, in our towns, in our cities, in our country and in the world.

We all want to talk, but no one will take these small first steps.

So what if we don't see change now, work for it, for the generation to come and InshaAllah, things will change.
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#390 [Permalink] Posted on 13th October 2019 03:30
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Dear Doctor Sahab, Don't you know that according to hadith, now only the khilafa under Sayyidina Mahdi HA will occur?

Quote:
teaching in schools, using media, doing Tablighi and punishing the corrupt using laws and law enforcers...


As I have said before, we already have got 90+ years of tabligh and centuries old system of madaris and khanqahs but still we are corrupt.

Quote:
punishing the corrupt using laws and law enforcers


Who will punish the corrupt when the law enforcers are themselves corrupt?

Quote:
was not almost every so called khalifa as corrupt as any other king ?


I call it monarchy and not khilafa.

So you think that Sayyidina Mahdi HA will come to rule a very pious and moral ummah?

If we can become honest and pious without a khilafa then what do we need khilafa for? Why will hudood be needed when there will be no fornicators, drunk and theives? Why would we need the enforcement of Zakat by state when all the able people will pay zakah on their own without supervision or state intervention? Why would we need state funded Islamic institutions when the ummah will be able to learn the deen under secular environment? What is the need of a manager if the factory can run by itself without supervision? What is the need of head of the family when a family can be live morally without a head? What is the need of Maulana Yasin and moderators when members of muftisays.com can behave without them? What is the need of rulers when people can remain organized and disciplined without them? Do we need to train the citizens to be perfect before democracy can be established? Or does the system train the citizens to learn and adapt to the new system (democracy in this example) through state administered education and media? Why Sayyidina Abu Bakr RA had to use force to stop the munkireen of Zakaat? Why Sayyidina Umar RA needed a disciplinary fist in order to rule the vast Islamic Empire? Were people of those times not pious already? So why was khilafa there on the first place? If the political system has no effect on our mind and soul then what was the reason of enforcing Shariah rule in Madina? Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) was a perfect Daiee. So, what was the need of him in establishing khilafah?
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