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abu mohammed, abuzayd2k, bint e aisha, Abdur Rahman ibn Awf, sipraomer, mSiddiqui
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#331 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 13:01
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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It's good if you have that information and I am glad that you aren't gonna share it with any of us common people. The problems of ulema are for the ulema to know and deal with.

No, I don't consider IK to be Kaafir/Jew/Qadiyani or whatever. I consider him another foolishly misguided person with a Messiah complex. What I know about his eventual rise to power is through discussion with certain people placed in various positions of power. Even then I admit that the information might not be something that can be proven beyond reasonable doubt. No, I might even be willing to ignore the "handler" aspect of his governance.

It's the incompetence that gets to me. I am more interested in seeing him really do the things that actually matter. Take those steps. Rather than just being an orator. It's time to see some results. The situation in the country worsens by the day with respect to law-enforcement, bribery in our institutions, provision of every day facilities that is the citizens' rights, etc., and we still haven't seen the change that was promised. It's been a year, there should at least have been a movement in the right direction, but instead we have him losing the one advantage we had in our affairs with India. At least with the previous governments India would not take such a drastic step, but with IK they saw a weakness in our ranks and called our bluff. And it worked.
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#332 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 13:49
I shall appreciate if the boys can deal with this lady, Christine Fair, talking about creation of Pakistan and the Kashmir problem. A short clip of this video was doing rounds on the Facebook sometime back and I simply could find the You Tube video at that time.
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#333 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 14:09

fod1083 wrote:
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Quote 1:

Quote:
No, I don't consider IK to be Kaafir/Jew/Qadiyani or whatever.

Quote 2:

Quote:
I consider him another foolishly misguided person with a Messiah complex.

Taking quote 1 on face value requires evidence in Islamic law for quote 2.




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#334 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 14:14
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She is clearly biased in favour of India, and she is shamelessly forwarding one sided view. Her agenda becomes more obvious when she starts using the term “terrorist army” for Pakistan army....

The beauty of an analyst is, that he/she should at least ‘appear’ to be unbiased.She is not even tying to hide her disgust towards Pakistan, which simply shows her to be lacking in her professional skills. When an orator’s next sentence becomes predictable, he/she loses her impact...

To me she sounds like an anchor on Zee news....
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#335 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 14:48

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Forget her, we cannot even speak to "Muslims" who profess to follow the Sunnah. Here is the summary of this thread:

  1. You need evidence to accuse a "Maulana"
  2. But you need no such thing to accuse another "Muslim". You can call him Jew/Kaafir/Qadiyani/incompetent/arrogant/malicious, pick anything you wish and requires Z-E-R-O evidence or Islamic proof of any kind.
 
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#336 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 15:32
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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I believe there is hardly any supporter of Maulana here, yes, there are those who are disappointed with the performance of IK on every level....

Two different issues..

We must not call anybody kafir/ Qadiani/Jew unless it is proved beyond doubt.In case of IK, nothing is proved against his person.His family tree is interesting but irrelevant here.

Maulana’s dharna should not happen or if it happens, it should fail, it has already started damaging the Kashmir cause. All the TV channels and newspapers are now talking about impending dharna rather than Kashmir. It is sad :(

That Maulana is WRONG does not make Imran khan RIGHT.Again two different issues.

I find it hard to swallow why some very learned people are becoming so emotional about IK....
May be I will find out when he starts performing better.
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#337 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 15:42

ALIF wrote:
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Because this is the version of Islam these brothers are taught! They are not loyal to Islam, they are loyal to their sect/cult.

As I have always believed that when Mahdi (AS) comes, some of these brothers will reject him solely because he will not be representing their cult/sect. They firmly believe that Mahdi (AS) will come and revive their cult/sect and not "Islam".

My teacher Shaykh Abu-Yusuf Ad-Damishqee has become old and lost his memory but something he said always stays with me

Son! Hanafi Madhab is contained in Islam but Islam in not contained in the Hanafi Madhab.

These brothers have taken it to the next level and believe that Islam is contained in their sect/cult.




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#338 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 17:14
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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It would require evidence if I was trying to prove this in the court of law. There is no such attempt here. This is an opinion of mine and I expect no one else to adhere to it. Everyone is free to believe whatever they want. That's hardly the point here. Trying to bury this issue in semantics won't work.
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#339 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 17:20
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Quote:
I find it hard to swallow why some very learned people are becoming so emotional about IK....
May be I will find out when he starts performing better.

Absolutely! This is confounding me too. We, who live in Pakistan, and have a better idea of the quality of his regime are never gonna understand how IK is all of a sudden a hero for these people.

To me, it's the general mentality of Muslims these days. The personality-worshiping aspect of it especially. A decade ago, the Muslim world had its hopes pinned on Obama, then it was Erdogan, now it's IK. We never learn.
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#340 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 18:28
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#341 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 18:59
I understand that people (Pakistanis) working with IK are no better than any other average Pakistanis.

That should not take away anything from the zaat of IK. IK is not a spiritual master who has a halaqa of mureeds or has his Sahaba, that he is spiritually mentoring and who are now running the admin of Pakistan.

He is running a national political party in which he has let people in who he feels bring value in this type of Pakistani political system and he has been using them.

Is this an ideal situation? No
Is Pakistani nation and masses an ideal muslim population? No

So just like we have a two faced amali hypocrite mawlvi as a leader of a political party, in this Pakistani system, we have to accept, from this morally corrupt Pakistani masses, IK will have people who he has to use to run the admin.

Why IK deserves some appreciation is that as a product of this morally corrupt system and masses, he has come a long way personally and also politically, and doing the things that were not being done before. Or at least giving it a shot, that no one before was giving...

Are people whining about the hike in prices? Well in this nation when it comes to monetary dealings and business, just try out any sufi, tableeghi, chisti, naqshbandi ,qadri etc, just do some business or “ lain dain”, and see how deen dari goes out of the window. When were Pakistanis honest about money ever??

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#342 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 19:07
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#343 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 19:08
If there is hazrat worship for a scholar then it's wrong.

If there is hero worship for a good orator with a secular outlook. It's fine and justified. Kudos to the intellectuals! ;)

DAJJAL WILL BE THE BEST ORATOR AND MESMERIZER. Lo! I fear! I fear! I fear! I fear for the safety of these practicing Muslims who fall for speeches so easily. How gullible and foolish of them. Where has their wisdom gone? Where are their brains? Lo! I fear for their iman.


As far as evidence is concerned regarding incompetency of that man. The economic condition of this country is enough evidence.

It is very funny when I hear some people saying that those who are in jail are wrongly accused and their corruption has not been proved. I ask them "Look! When rain falls, aren't our roads and streets flooded? So where did they spend those loans all these years? Why haven't we become a second world country when poorer countries like Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia and even Bangladesh have performed better than us?"

The actual condition of a state is evidence enough for the competence or incompetence of a ruler. I am not expecting that they could have made Pakistan a heaven in just one year. However, what did they do with the budget this year? They only imposed extra taxes on wage earning citizens and nothing else.
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#344 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 19:09
People here are only judging Imran Khan based on his speeches. They have not lived in Pakistan, they have not seen how common people are suffering and how life has become difficult for the underprivileged in Pakistan.
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#345 [Permalink] Posted on 7th October 2019 19:12
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For an ordinary politician we could say that. However, his main slogan was "End of corruption! End of Status Quo".
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