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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 12th April 2017 08:33
I searched and searched but found no comprehensive thread about Pakistan.

Keeping importance of this country for Muslim Ummah today it is strange.

So I thought I would create this thread where we can discuss issues related to Pakistan.
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 12th April 2017 09:19
Justice Markandey Katju on Kulbhushan Jadhav Case


Justice Markandey Katju is a Kashmiri Pandit and he served in many significant constitutional positions in India. He has been the Chairman of Press Council of India, Chief Justice of Delhi, Madras and Allahabad High Courts and as a justice of the Supreme Cour of India.

He comments on various social and political issues affecting India today. His is an image of a maverick but the issues he picks up are of utmost importance to India.

He is active on Facebook as well as writes a learned blog, modulo his maverick nature. His latest blog post is about an Indian spy in Pakistan - Kulbhushan Jadhav. Here is the text of that post.

Quote:
I have a hunch that the Pakistani authorities will hang Kulbhushan Jadhav.
The reason why I think so is that the Pakistan was created so that there should be hatred between Hindus and Muslims. If there is no hatred the very purpose of Partition and creating Pakistan will be lost.
So in my opinion the decision to hang Jadhav was taken by the Pakistan authorities after cool deliberation since hanging him is bound to considerably increase hatred of Muslims in India, and there may then soon be attacks on Muslims and mosques in many parts of India. These will of course be described as 'spontaneous' by the Indian Govt., just as attacks on Jews during 'Kristallnacht' in November 1938 in Germany were described as 'spontaneous' by the Nazis.
These attacks on Muslims and mosques in India will inevitably result in 'spontaneous' attacks on the small Hindu community in Pakistan ( and possibly even Bangladesh ) and on Hindu temples.
There will then be further 'spontaneous' attacks on Muslims and mosques in India, and retaliatory 'spontaneous' attacks on Hindus and their temples. in Pakistan.
Whether this sequence of events will at all happen, and if it does, how long will this see saw go on, and whether this heightened tension will escalate into a war between India and Pakistan, is yet to be seen.


I have to comment on it to put the things in perspective - as much as I can.
Quote:

I have a hunch that the Pakistani authorities will hang Kulbhushan Jadhav.
The reason why I think so is that the Pakistan was created so that there should be hatred between Hindus and Muslims. If there is no hatred the very purpose of Partition and creating Pakistan will be lost.

This preamble of the post portrays Pakistan as an inherently flawed and duplicitous country.
Flawed Pakistan might be, we hardly have any faultless nation on the earth's face.
To present her, Pakistan, as a duplicitous country is very unfortunate.
More unfortunately that is what the world thinks of Pakistan - at least the part of the world that is Islamophobic.
The nationalistic gentry in India does the same.
At the end Muslims are left helplessly holding onto the facts that lead to the creation of Pakistan.
And what are these facts?
Well many Muslims in India before 1947 thought that post independence Muslims in India might be caught in a disadvantageous position because democracy has no foolproof mechanism to protect the interests of minorities, not even the security.
The rise and rise of RSS and her sister and daughter organizations has brought home the pugnacious situation as the most cringeworthy problem of the world today.
Of course there might be many die-hard partition haters who will blame the present tight situation of Indian Muslims on division of India. They will be very minimally right.
Why?
To know it one has to look at the printed record that is indelible.
At the end of the nineteenth century a book was written in Bengal called Anand Math by a Bengali civil servant named Bankim Chandra Chaterjee. Chaterjee in that book positioned Hindus, the majority community even in the then India, against Muslims.
this was not the only formations of the shape of the things to come and unfold but merely tell-tale sign.
The legacy was refined in such publications of RSS and We-Our Nationhood Defined and Bunch of Thoughts by the second RSS supremo M.S.Golwalkar who carried the honorific of Guruji - the Teacher.
People like Justice Katju are not supporters of RSS but he certainly belongs to a very large chunk of Indians from the majority community who will dump the blame for current tsunamic surge of Islamophobia in India on partition.
By blaming Pakistan for Indo-Pak hatred he has indulged in the classic act of putting the cart before the horse.
Ironically these arguments should have been coming from Pakistanis but they seem to be busy in more important things.
By and large the creators of Pakistan entrusted very irresponsible people with the task of taking care of the interests of the Ummah of beloved Rasoolallah SAW. The contry is full of Balochs, Sindhis, Punjabis enjoying shameless feudalism and blissfully unaware of the stark and repugnant reality that there are Muslims in India paying the price for their luxury.

Quote:
So in my opinion the decision to hang Jadhav was taken by the Pakistan authorities after cool deliberation since hanging him is bound to considerably increase hatred of Muslims in India, and there may then soon be attacks on Muslims and mosques in many parts of India.

This line of argument is far-fetched and that is why I call Justice Katju a maverick. Like Sheikh Imran Hossein Justice Katju begins with actual ground level facts, information and reality and immediately runs it down with his exotica of wild guess and arbitrary conclusions. Their diagnosis of importance of issues is brilliant and their conclusions rubish and rank unreliable.
Quote:
These will of course be described as 'spontaneous' by the Indian Govt., just as attacks on Jews during 'Kristallnacht' in November 1938 in Germany were described as 'spontaneous' by the Nazis.
These attacks on Muslims and mosques in India will inevitably result in 'spontaneous' attacks on the small Hindu community in Pakistan ( and possibly even Bangladesh ) and on Hindu temples.
There will then be further 'spontaneous' attacks on Muslims and mosques in India, and retaliatory 'spontaneous' attacks on Hindus and their temples. in Pakistan.

This obnoxious forecast looks all the more chilly because it does look possible, plausible and likely.
Quote:
Whether this sequence of events will at all happen, and if it does, how long will this see saw go on, and whether this heightened tension will escalate into a war between India and Pakistan, is yet to be seen.

As I admitted earlier Justice Katju does raise relevant and pertinent questions. Above question qualifies to be one such nagging query.
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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 12th April 2017 09:26
Hassan Nisar


Hassan Nisar is one very visible and influencial journalist that Pakistanis do not know how to react to. His brilliant diagnosis of the unpleasant ground reality is even more brilliant than even Justice Katju or Sheikh Imran Hossein. Sadly he offers no solutions to the People of Pakistan in particular and the Muslims in general but spares no opportunity to lash at them. He supremely qualifies as the proverbial bad friend worse than a wise enemy.

In this thread I intend to deconstruct some of his arguments and urge the people from that contry to have a closer look at his thinking and disposition for he might be operating from good or even best intentions but the end result is decidedly against the people whom he thinks he is trying to support and help.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 12th April 2017 09:55
Apparently Hassan Nisar is one of another fake individual that we have in Pakistan who thrives on using the truth , to sound good, but in reality is a mentally "Maghloub/مغلوب" man, and it is very much possible his apparent assertiveness helps to just hide his own internal weaknesses.

Pakistan has an epidemic of pathological liars in many circles, and i feel he displays his own share of lying , as common on our TV channels and media.
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 12th April 2017 10:51
Bismillah
It would be nice to send such comments directly to Katju.
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 12th April 2017 11:37

Maripat wrote:
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Justice Markandey Katju Double Standards:

For a Judge, this Justice Markandey Katju is making some very unedcuated remarks.

  1. On the 13th of December 2001, 5 Men drove through the Indian Parliament and killed 12 people.

  2. Afzal Guru was one of the perpetrators and India executed him on the 9th of February 2013, despite outcries worldwide that the confession was received under duress and under torture. The trial and confessions were never made public.

  3. Kulbushun Jadhiv was caught on the Pakistani Side of the Border and has actually made a public confession

Halalified YT Audio

  • The legal system has run its course and announced its judgement. Kulbushun Jadhiv has appealed which will be heard within 60 days.
  • IF Kulbushun Jadhiv is indeed an innocent Indian Businessman why is he carrying a passport in the name of "Hussein Mubarak Patel"? Not a single Indian Media cannel has touched on this issue at all.

  • Why has Indian Government not started an investigation into how a “fake passport” was issued? Surely it’s a crime in India to have fake passports?

  • Is it standard procedure for Hindus to be issued passports in Muslim names when they do business in Iran?

Justice Markandey Katju Alternative Facts:

 

I would like any Indian Media or TV Channel to present facts as to how many times since 1947:

  1. Muslims, their lives, their properties and places of worship have been attacked and damaged in India VERSUS

  2. Hindus, their lives, their properties and places of worship have been attacked and damaged in Pakistan

Go Ahead...

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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2017 06:41
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2017 08:19
Umm Khadeejah wrote:
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I don't think that many people, Journalists and Media personalities in both India or Pakistan are genuinely searching for the truth. They chase fame and ratings and their objective is not to seek out the truth and bring people together.

Majority of people are brought up on stupid Nationalism like standing up for National Anthem when watching movies etc so its next to impossible to reason logically.

Many countries are like that.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2017 15:43
Umm Khadeejah wrote:
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Umm Khadeejah wrote:
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I am sorry sister for the delay in replying. With your first comment itself I had made the intention to reply.

(1) The main point in this thread is not the viewpoint held by Justice Katju. The focus is Pakistan. Justice Katju is a learned man and he has made up his mind about the things including Pakistan. It is upto Pakistanis to defend Pakistan and that is what they must do. Unfortunately they, I mean Pakistanis, are not doing a good job of it. My pique is that we Muslims of India are left with the bill for Pakistan and Pakistanis are simply making a spectre of both themselves and the country they got at our expense, exceptions apart.

(2) People, Muslims, have been communicating to Justice Katju constantly. He simply ignores the sentiments. He things he is the smartest guy on the block and takes every reaction by Muslim to be the reaction of an ignoramus.

(3) I too was with him on the Facebook and a few times he did notice my comments on his wall. After that he started having those problems with aggressive Hindutva hoodlums and there was no possibility of communication with him in that din. Plus he is not amongst those who absorb the view of other people into his worldview and hence becomes a less worthwhile target for indulging in serious discussion.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2017 15:59

Umm Khadeejah wrote:
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I have now blocked the white supremist who was trolling me but these are the kind of peple on the Internet we (Muslims) deal with, everyday.

twitter.com/Muadh_Khan/status/852466653648625668

He had no answer after I publicly shamed him. Most Muslims are not as shameless as me to pursue this kind of dirty conversation and prefer to stay away.

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2017 16:01

Pakistani Islamist Leader Calls on Taliban to Join His Political Party


Above is the headline used by theVoice of America in its report on the Jamiat-Ulema-e-Islam convention held about a week ago.

So what is wrong with this headline?
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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 13th April 2017 19:11
Assalam u alaikum
Quote:
My pique is that we Muslims of India are left with the bill for Pakistan and Pakistanis are simply making a spectre of both themselves and the country they got at our expense, exceptions apart.

It really hurts when we hear these things, and we actually feel guilty that we (Pakistanis) can't do anything for our Muslim brothers and sisters in India. But these words are extremely painful..
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 14th April 2017 11:14
bint e aisha wrote:
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We can't even run our own country properly. Believe me, Indian Muslims would be mighty pleased if Pakistan wasn't a complete and epic failure.
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 14th April 2017 15:49
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Why do you feel hurt sister? All said and done sisters are exempt by Islam from such responsibilities.
I sit in India and I sit in Aligarh. We gave you a country. And by you I mean the men responsible for running the country. I and people like me will always ask Pakistanis about the report card. Both as an Ummah and as the people who were left with the bill for the creation of Pakistan.

But then it is not a case of bickering but of taking stock of the things and taking a stock of the state of Ummah. We as an Ummah are passing through a very difficult phase. Bickering in this condition is not good at all so I apologize.

And that leaves us witha mighty responsibility - to be responsible for the Ummah of Rasoolallah SAW.
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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 14th April 2017 16:26
Quote:
Why do you feel hurt sister? All said and done sisters are exempt by Islam from such responsibilities.

Yeah it's not our responsibility but at the time of our Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wasallam, our mothers used to go out and fight in the battlefield even though it wasn't their responsibility. That's why I am guilty coz I call myself their daughter.
Quote:
I and people like me will always ask Pakistanis about the report card. Both as an Ummah and as the people who were left with the bill for the creation of Pakistan.

We are ashamed to show you the report card.
Quote:
Bickering in this condition is not good at all so I apologize.

Please don't apologize. And Jazakumullah khayr for making these points, we actually need this kind of fair criticism.
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