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Concerned
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#91 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2017 18:42
Perhaps you all are saying that there is a possibility of fitna and haram happening at these events, and since the Masjid is sanctified, we wont risk these things happening at the Masjid, so we will hold events at another location so if fitna and haram occurs it would be in an unsanctified place. Is this correct?
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#92 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2017 19:08

Concerned wrote:
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  1. MOSQUE is sanctified by DEFAULT even if there is NOT A SINGLE HUMAN BEING inside (man or woman).

[9:18] The mosques of Allah are only to be maintained by those who believe in Allah and the Last Day and establish prayer and give zakah and do not fear except Allah , for it is expected that those will be of the [rightly] guided.

Your house, my house, your university, my university is NOT sanctified by DEFAULT.

Tell me in plan English what you don't understand above and we will go from there.

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#93 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2017 19:20

JKN (Bradford) is an Islamic Institute with facilities for men, women and children. I have been there, walked around with my shoes, attending talks had meetings and here is a picture of the exact building where the event was held.

  1. It is NOT a Mosque
  2. It was NOT on Eid Day
  3. There was NO Free-Mixing in the Hall.
  4. Men and Women ENTER and EXIT through separate entrances
  5. Men and Women CANNOT run into each other
  6. Men DIDNOT enter the Women Section and Women DIDNOT enter the Men Section
  7. Men DIDNOT pray with the Women and Women DIDNOT pray with the Men
  8. Men DIDNOT listen with the Women and Women DIDNOT listen with the Men to any talks

WHAT FITNAH and DOUBLE STANDARDS IS THIS TROLL REFERRING TO?

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#94 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2017 22:32
Abdullah Ibn Umar, Radi-Allahu anhu, narrates that the Messenger of Allah, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, said: "Do not prevent your women from (entering) the mosques of Allah." [Sahih Muslim. Kitab-us-Salat, Babu Khuroojin Nisaai ilal masjid iza lam utarattab. #668)

Imam Nawawi’s Commentary on the Hadith prohibiting Stopping Women from Masjid

This last hadith has been used as a justification for an unmitigated and unconditional right of women to fully participate in the main hall of a masjid. But this is not how it has been understood by hadith scholars and Muslim jurists. In his commentary of Sahih Muslim, Imam Nawawi writes:

قَوْله صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : ( لَا تَمْنَعُوا إِمَاء اللَّه مَسَاجِد اللَّه ) هَذَا وَشَبَهه مِنْ أَحَادِيث الْبَاب ظَاهِر فِي أَنَّهَا لَا تُمْنَع الْمَسْجِد لَكِنْ بِشُرُوطٍ ذَكَرَهَا الْعُلَمَاء مَأْخُوذَة مِنْ الْأَحَادِيث , وَهُوَ أَلَّا تَكُون مُتَطَيِّبَة , وَلَا مُتَزَيِّنَة , وَلَا ذَات خَلَاخِل يُسْمَع صَوْتهَا , وَلَا ثِيَاب فَاخِرَة , وَلَا مُخْتَلِطَة بِالرِّجَالِ , وَلَا شَابَّة وَنَحْوهَا مِمَّنْ يُفْتَتَن بِهَا , وَأَنْ لَا يَكُون فِي الطَّرِيق مَا يَخَاف بِهِ مَفْسَدَة وَنَحْوهَا . وَهَذَا النَّهْي عَنْ مَنْعهنَّ مِنْ الْخُرُوج مَحْمُول عَلَى كَرَاهَة التَّنْزِيه إِذَا كَانَتْ الْمَرْأَة ذَات زَوْج أَوْ سَيِّد وَوُجِدَتْ الشُّرُوط الْمَذْكُورَة , فَإِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ لَهَا زَوْج وَلَا سَيِّد حَرُمَ الْمَنْع إِذَا وُجِدَتْ الشُّرُوط .

“From this hadith and other ahadith like this it appears that women should not be prohibited from the masjid, but with conditions that the scholars have mentioned and which are deduced from ahadith and these are:

1) She should not wear any perfume.

3) She should not be wearing jingling jewelry

4) She should not be wearing fancy clothes.

5) She should not mix with the men.

6) She should not be young, through whom fitna can erupt

7) The path to the masjid should be safe (i.e. there should be no fear of any problem on her way to and from the masjid).

Stopping them from going to the masjid will be lightly discouraged (makruh tanzihi) if she meets all the conditions listed here and has a husband or guardian. Stopping them will be haram when she meets all the conditions and does not have a husband or guardian."
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#95 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2017 22:39
Points 1 to 4 above will be an issue with women coming to masjid for any activity. They will no be as big an issue in other places, whether for eid or fun days.
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#96 [Permalink] Posted on 15th March 2017 23:22
Quote:
Points 1 to 4 above will be an issue with women coming to masjid for any activity. They will no be as big an issue in other places, whether for eid or fun days.


Why would you say it will not be as big an issue for other places. I am under the understanding that those conditions would apply if a women wanted to attend most other events in halls or similar facilities. (of course once she is a sisters only section the restrictions would be lifted)
Do you have any statements from scholars to back up your claim that those conditions are specific to the Masjid and not for anywhere else?

Quote:
1) She should not wear any perfume.

There are hadith about this point in general, not only relating to the Masjid

3) She should not be wearing jingling jewelry
This is in general.

Quote:
4) She should not be wearing fancy clothes.

A women should properly observe Hijab when leaving the home in general, not only when going to Masjid.
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#97 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 10:32

Ryder wrote:
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Masha'Allah fantastic information my Brother but just for clarity:

  1. JKN (Bradford) is an Islamic Institute not a Mosque.
  2. This event DID NOT take place at Eid
  3. There was no free-mixing
  4. There was no dining together and funfair

This is probably the 4th day in trying to explain it to this Brother that his assertion has multiple errors. He has then doubled down on his errors and accused others of double standards.

Just in case people have not read the original post:

It is interesting to see the names of the ulama on those posters for gala dinners and family fun days. Just a little while back I personally heard Mufti AK Hosein say that it is forbidden for women to go to masjid. Apparently they can come to a fundraising dinner. I also personally heard Shaykh Abdur Rahim limbada say leave things as they are with respect to women and the maajid , we should consider ourselves fortunate. This was in a place where there is a blanket ban on women for eid salah and traveling ladies have to sit in the car while their husbands pray jumuah. Apparently they can come to a family fun day.

Mufti Abdur Rahman Mangera seems to maintain a standard and doesn't have one set of rules for ladies when it comes to eid and masjid and another set of rules for other events, and he doesn't hide it.

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#98 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 13:46
I shouldnt be doing this but I will try and explain one more time.

Mufti Muhamad ibn Adam says:

Quote:
Therefore, when women are allowed to go to the Bazaars, markets, shopping malls and other such places (and justifiably in many cases), then it does not seem right to completely shun them from coming to the Mosques.


I am saying :
Quote:
Therefore, when women are allowed to go to the JKN family fun day, Gala dinners, other such places (and justifiably in many cases), then it does not seem right to completely shun them from coming to the Mosques


So logically you will have to say:

A Bazar is not a mosque.
A mall is not a mosque.
There was no dining together and funfair
etc
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#99 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 14:40

Concerned wrote:
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Sure let me say it and hope that the penny drops in your head. All I am looking for from YOU is response in plain English as to which bits you disagree with and why.

You are further digging yourself into a hole lets hope that you have the intelligence and above all moral courage, ethics and most importantly SHAME to come to your senses.

Admission 1:

  1. Mosque is NOT a Resturant
  2. Mosque is NOT a Bazaar
  3. Mosque is NOT a Shopping Mall

The discouragement is towards women praying (in congregation) in a MOSQUE.

Admission 2:

  1. JKN (Bradford) is an Islamic Institute NOT a Mosque.
  2. JKN (Bradford) is an Islamic Institute NOT a Resturant
  3. JKN (Bradford) is an Islamic Institute NOT a Bazaar
  4. JKN (Bradford) is an Islamic Institute NOT a Shopping Mall

Admission 3:

  1. There is NO free-mixing at JKN (Bradford)
  2. There is NO common dining at JKN (Bradford)
  3. There is NO interaction between Men and Women at JKN (Bradford)

Conclusion:

For days you have been completely off your mind, making accusations talking insanity and none of it is irrelevant to the charges of double standards which you are throwing at all.

You are the closest Muslim version of Donald Trump I have seen, in over 15+ years of being online I have NEVER met anyone so blatantly shameless who just cannot see that the original accusations are completely irrelevant. If you think that you will grind me down by your trolling, you won’t.

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#100 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 14:47
This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.
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#101 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 14:58

adamjee wrote:
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No the Fatwa is not reliable at all but more importantly the topic of this thread is the event at Bradford.

  1. JKN (Bradford) is NOT a Mosque.
  2. There is NO free-mixing at JKN (Bradford)
  3. There is NO common dining at JKN (Bradford)
  4. There is NO interaction between Men and Women at JKN (Bradford)

Please reply as to which line from 1-4 do you not understand?

If you have a General Concern with a Fatwa from a Mufti, take it with them. This thread is about an event at JKN (Bradford)

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#102 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 15:03
Who keeps reporting posts when they disagree with it?
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#103 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 15:04
Quote:
This thread is about an event at JKN (Bradford)


That is incorrect. The event at JKN was mentioned to prove the point. They are many other events which can be used as examples, bot Islamic and non Islamic. You just can't seem to get the point.
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#104 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 15:10
Concerned wrote:
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Majlis fatwas are banned on the forum.
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#105 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 15:10
jazaakallah Mufti Muadh for the post.

it is good the post has been reported as stated:

This post has been reported. It could be due to breaking rules or something as simple as bad use of bbcodes which breaks the page format. We will attend to this soon.

we cant allow wrong fatwas here!
anyways, we should respond to these wrong fatwas.
Maybe Mufti Muadh could compile a response to what i posted earlier.

let's begin:

........
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