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All in due time once you give me your reasons of labelling the event at Bradford as hypocrisy. What is your basis?
All I am saying is that this event had nothing to do with women attending Mosques, if you misunderstood admit it and move on so we can discuss the crux of your queries.
You can’t label people and their actions s hypocritical without providing some evidence to back your claims.
Nope there is nothing about agreeing to disagree.
We agree that there are no restrictions on woman (simply based on Gender) on visiting a particular building. JKN is a building not a Mosque and the event did NOT take place at Eid.
So why is an event at JKN comparable to restrictions on visiting a Mosque or Eid Salah (even if there are restrictions in place).
Let’s suppose that the Deobanees do place restrictions (which we will explore shortly) on attending Mosques and Eid Salah HOW ON EARTH did you compare the JKN event and labelled the actions as hypocritical when the supposed restrictions (which you speak of) don’t apply in this case.
Multiple people for days have gone to great lengths to make you see this but you don’t seem to be getting it and insisting on you original charges of double standards and hypocrisy, based on what?
So why are you comparing Apples and Oranges? EVEN if we temporarily agree with your assertions that Deobandees have wrongly put restrictions on both of these. How have Deobandees violated their own rules?
Accusing someone of hypocrisy is a serious accusation in Islam so what is your basis for it?
OK so your playing Games and being a Troll.
You have taken snippets of information and opinions of certain Ulama and you are applying it to actions of other Ulama and labelling it as double standards.
I will simply ignore your further requests and carry on with how I am answering this query.
The simple ONE LINE answer is this:
What makes you think that the Ulama who organised and ran the program at Bradford agree with opinions which you are quoting?
In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh
Now we get to an important point in our discussion. Does Islam “discourage” WOMEN from going to the MOSQUE (remember this word) on account of gender alone?
The primary purpose of a MOSQUE is to establish Salah. When we look at the verses of the Qur’aan and Ahadeeth, we usually (and overwhelmingly) find Prayer is to be established and not just prayed, for example:
[2:43] And establish prayer and give zakah and bow with those who bow [in worship and obedience].
There is consensus in Islam that prayer in congregation is much superior to praying alone and this is narrated in many Ahadeeth and as just a single example:
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Prayer in congregation is twenty seven times better than prayer prayed individually.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (645) and Sahîh Muslim (650)]
Then on Fridays it is on obligation on MEN to go to a MOSQUE
So what about WOMEN where are they supposed to pray? Hadeeth is pretty clear:
عن أُمِّ حُمَيْدٍ امْرَأَةِ أَبِي حُمَيْدٍ السَّاعِدِيِّ ( أَنَّهَا جَاءَتْ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَقَالَتْ : يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ، إِنِّي أُحِبُّ الصَّلَاةَ مَعَكَ . قَالَ : قَدْ عَلِمْتُ أَنَّكِ تُحِبِّينَ الصَّلَاةَ مَعِي ، وَصَلَاتُكِ فِي بَيْتِكِ خَيْرٌ لَكِ مِنْ صَلَاتِكِ فِي حُجْرَتِكِ، وَصَلَاتُكِ فِي حُجْرَتِكِ خَيْرٌ مِنْ صَلَاتِكِ فِي دَارِكِ، وَصَلَاتُكِ فِي دَارِكِ خَيْرٌ لَكِ مِنْ صَلَاتِكِ فِي مَسْجِدِ قَوْمِكِ، وَصَلَاتُكِ فِي مَسْجِدِ قَوْمِكِ خَيْرٌ لَكِ مِنْ صَلَاتِكِ فِي مَسْجِدِي
Imam Ahmed narrated from Umm Humayd, the wife of Abu Humayd al-Saa’idi (RA), that she came to the Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and said: "O Messenger of Allaah, I love to pray with you." He said: "I know that you love to pray with me, but praying in your house is better for you than praying in your courtyard, and praying in your courtyard is better for you than praying in the mosque of your people, and praying in the mosque of your people is better for you than praying in my mosque." [Ahmed]
Who was Umm Humayd (RA) and what did she do after this?
Umm Humayd (RA) wife of Abu Humayd al-Saa'idi (RA) is regarded as the great worshipper of Allah (SWT) even amongst the Sahabiyaat (RA) [عابدة من عابدات, صدر الإسلام] her desire to worship Allah (SWT) behind the Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is natural but her actions after the response from Nabi (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is vital for our believing Sisters to emulate. What did she do after that?
Imam Al-Hafidh Ibn Hajr Asqalani (RA) in his magnum opus al-Isaba fi tamyiz al-Sahaba, one of the most comprehensive dictionary of the Companions writes that she ordered a Musallah (prayer station) in the darkest corner of her residence and prayed there until she met Allah (SWT) i.e. she never again prayed at the Mosque!
فأمرت فَبُني لها مسجد في أقصى شيء من بيتها و أظلمه، فكانت تصلي فيه حتى لقيت الله تعالى
So what about WOMEN attending Eid Salah?
The main Hadeeth on the subject is this one:
حَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدٍ، عَنْ أُمِّ عَطِيَّةَ، قَالَتْ أُمِرْنَا أَنْ نُخْرِجَ، الْحُيَّضَ يَوْمَ الْعِيدَيْنِ وَذَوَاتِ الْخُدُورِ، فَيَشْهَدْنَ جَمَاعَةَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ وَدَعْوَتَهُمْ، وَيَعْتَزِلُ الْحُيَّضُ عَنْ مُصَلاَّهُنَّ. قَالَتِ امْرَأَةٌ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ، إِحْدَانَا لَيْسَ لَهَا جِلْبَابٌ. قَالَ " لِتُلْبِسْهَا صَاحِبَتُهَا مِنْ جِلْبَابِهَا ". وَقَالَ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ رَجَاءٍ حَدَّثَنَا عِمْرَانُ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ سِيرِينَ، حَدَّثَتْنَا أُمُّ عَطِيَّةَ، سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِهَذَا.
Sayyida Um `Atiya (RA) narrated that we were ordered to bring out our menstruating women and veiled women in the religious gatherings and invocation of Muslims on the two `Id festivals. These menstruating women were to keep away from their Musalla. A woman asked, "O Allah's Apostle (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) ' What about one who does not have a veil?" He said, "Let her share the veil of her companion." [Bukhari]
Nevertheless, let’s take this on face value and say that it is P-E-R-M-I-T-T-E-D for women to come for Eid Salah. It is STILL neither obligatory nor recommended or preferred and no special reward associated with it.
What am I trying to say?
It is an obligation, Sunnah or Superior for MEN to pray in Congregation but no such injunction exists for Women. I have used 3 separate words in the sentence because there is indeed differences amongst Scholars if congregational Salah is an obligation or “superior”, everyone agrees that it is Sunnah.
MEN have to go to a MOSQUE for Jumu'ah (or a Friday Prayer Facility if you want to be technical) and it is an obligation but no such requirement or obligation exists for women at all.
It is neither an obligation, nor Sunnah nor any speriority for WOMEN to go the MOSQUE, in fact it is INFERIOR for a woman to go to a Mosque, although her Salah is valid.
Ethically, if you are wrong or unable to understand something you plead error or lack of knowledge and move on. Unfortunately the massive ego of this Brother prevents him from admitting that so he continues to plough on despite repeated requests to substantiate himself. In the end what does he do? He trolls the forum by posting Fatawa from banned sites purporting them to be authentic and to back his claims.
He is a drama queen and wants attention so he trolls and trolls and stoops ever lower in his quest to show double standards.
So as I have asked multiple times, what is HIS ISAMIC PROOF of the event at Bradford a violation of any of the points above.
All I get is moaning and whining that I am no answering his question. He hasn’t posed a sensible question at all.
His (irrelevant and ridiculous point) is this:
Ignoring his (lack of intelligence) and ignorance for a minute:
Because there is no prohibition of women attending a BUILDING while fulfilling laws of Hijab etc.
This guy just CANNOT seem to understand the difference between a MOSQUE and an ordinary building. There is no need for days of discussions on a topic because there is NO CONTRADICTION HERE but the troll cannot help himself.
This cannot be undone and I am sure it will be greatly appreciated.