Create an account
Most Reputable Members

women, masjid, dinners, fun days, double standards

Jump to page:

You have contributed 0.0% of this topic

Thread Tools
Post New Topic Filter by poster  
Topic Appreciation
Appreciate
To appreciate this topic, click 'Appreciate Topic' on the right.
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7275
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5822
#46 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 14:32

Concerned wrote:
View original post

Take it easy and lets discuss this one step at a time.

Do you agree with Point 1?

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Site Support
Please DONATE generously towards Muftisays

We spend hundreds of hours ensuring you receive a quality service from this site. We do not fall into the advertisement schemes as all the ads contain elements of Haraam including Haraam Islamic links. Please consider setting up a £1 monthly donation. May Allah (swt) reward you.

Concerned
Rank Image
Offline
Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
265
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
109
#47 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 14:39
Agreed
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7275
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5822
#48 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 14:45

WOMEN IN THE MOSQUE DIALOGUE: POINT 2- ENTRY RESTRICTIONS IN A MOSQUE?

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh

Since a MOSQUE in Islam is a special designated building clearly, deliberately and exclusively made for acts of worship, entry is restricted. 

A man in a sexually defiled state and a woman who is menstruating (or in a sexually defiled state) is PROHIBITED from entry into a Mosque and there are many Ahaadeeth on this issue, for example it is hinted in this verse:


 
[4:43] O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying or in a state of janabah, except those passing through [a place of prayer], until you have washed [your whole body]. And if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and find no water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and your hands [with it]. Indeed, Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving.

It is explicitly mentioned here:

 حدثنا مسدد حدثنا عبد الواحد بن زياد حدثنا الأفلت بن خليفة قال حدثتني جسرة بنت دجاجة قالت سمعت عائشة رضي الله عنها تقول جاء رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ووجوه بيوت أصحابه شارعة في المسجد فقال وجهوا هذه البيوت عن المسجد ثم دخل النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يصنع القوم شيئا رجاء أن تنزل فيهم رخصة فخرج إليهم بعد فقال وجهوا هذه البيوت عن المسجد فإني لا أحل المسجد لحائض ولا جنب قال أبو داود هو فليت العامري

Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is reported to have said, “The mosque is not permitted for menstruating women or anyone who is junub. [Abu Dawud]

However based on the wording of the verse (above) there is some (minor) disagreement between Ulama which is as follows:

  1. A group of Ulama believe that someone in a state of defilement CANNOT enter a Mosque at all.
  2. A group of Ulama believe that someone in a state of defilement CAN PASS THROUGH a Mosque (if it’s a shortcut or if there is no other way or if it is an urgency etc).

But no Scholar permits aimless and groundless staying in the Mosque in a state of defilement (for both men and women).

If you disagree with any of this provide your evidence.


 

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Concerned
Rank Image
Offline
Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
265
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
109
#49 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 14:54
Based on what I have learnt, I agree there is no allowance for aimless and groundless staying in the (designated)Mosque in a state of defilement (for both men and women).
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7275
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5822
#50 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 14:56

Concerned wrote:
View original post

And which Madhab allows for aimless and groundless roaming around a MOSQUE in a sexually defiled state?

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Concerned
Rank Image
Offline
Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
265
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
109
#51 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 14:58
I edited it, but the point I was making is that I cannot comment on whether they are other opinions , as I am no expert in this matter, so based on what I have learnt I would agree with you.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7275
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5822
#52 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 15:12

WOMEN IN THE MOSQUE DIALOGUE: LOGICAL DEDUCTIONS BASED ON POINTS 1 & 2

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh

JKN (Bradford) is an Islamic Institute with facilities for men, women and children. I have been there, walked around with my shoes, attending talks had meetings and here is a picture of the exact building where the event was held.

  1. What makes you think that this a MOSQUE?
  2. What makes you think that women are prohibited in it?
  3. What makes you think that restrictions of a MOSQUE apply to this building?

If you disagree with any of this provide your evidence and then we will move to Point 3.

If the picture cannot be seen, click this.

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Concerned
Rank Image
Offline
Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
265
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
109
#53 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 15:23
What makes you think that this a MOSQUE?
I never thought that,it is not a mosque.


What makes you think that women are prohibited in it?

I never said that. Just for the sake of answering your question, women would not be prohibited from entering the building by default. Other factors would have to be considered for it to be determined whethet she is prohibited from entering in.

What makes you think that restrictions of a MOSQUE apply to this building?

I never said the restrictions of a Mosque apply to this building.

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7275
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5822
#54 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 15:28

Concerned wrote:
View original post

So what is the premise of your shouting hypocrisy?

  1. It’s not a Mosque so there are no Shariah (based) restrictions.
  2. The building fully caters for Sisters.

What is the basis of your original insistence that since there are *possible restrictions to women praying in a Mosque this program is hypocritical?

Was this event hypocritial?

* We will explore this in a minute.

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7275
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5822
#55 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 15:42
Here is 2015 Funday Poster from the same Institute:

Loading tweet


They have been catering for Sisters since 1996, what makes you think this year's event was extraordinary?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Concerned
Rank Image
Offline
Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
265
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
109
#56 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 15:50
Before we proceed I need you to answer this question simply. Are the restrictions placed on women attending the mosque due to the women herself or the mosque itself?

For example there is a special rule regarding the masjid that a man in need of ghusl cannot enter the masjid. So therefore when a man is in this state he cannot enter. When he is out of this state he can enter.
There is a special rule regarding the masjid that a person cannot transact business in the masjid. So therefore to enter the masjid he has to stop selling his item.

Your points imply that there is a special rule or restriction regarding the masjid that says women cannot enter by default. She would have to stop beings woman to enter.

You would have to bring evidence for this restriction regarding the Masjid.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Concerned
Rank Image
Offline
Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
265
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
109
#57 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 15:52
Muadh_Khan wrote:
View original post

That is a sisters only event so it is not applicable to this discussion.
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
abu mohammed
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
Joined:
6th Oct 2008
Longevity:
28%
Location:
London
Posts:
18193
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
4915
#58 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 15:55
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Concerned
Rank Image
Offline
Joined:
1st Sep 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
265
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
109
#59 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 15:59
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post

Good. There are many restrictions mentioned there. The only regarding women is when they are menstruating. Where is the restrictions for women due to being female?
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7275
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5822
#60 [Permalink] Posted on 14th March 2017 16:00

Concerned wrote:
View original post

You have dodged the qeustion. What is your basis of asserting that this event was hypocritical?

report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Back to top Post New Topic

Jump to page: