women, masjid, dinners, fun days, double standards

If you have the energy (or stubborness) to continue to avoid discussing the topic in a systematic and organised manner, I have the energy (the stubbornness) and the motivation to keep calling your bluff!

Let’s get back to the issue and discuss thematically and systematically.

Issue NUMBER ONE (Normal 5 times Salah):

Until the day of Judgement, in the most safe, serene, protected Masjid it will be SUPERIOR for women to pray at Home because the matter is discussed in a Hadeeth.

1. No Banning
2. Nothing to do with safety
3. Nothing to do with the era
4. Nothing to do with the neighbourhood
5. Nothing to do with anything

We will systematically discuss everything else, once you ACCEPT or REFUTE from the Qur’aan and Sunnah.

If you have no arguments against, we can move ahead with every other issues which you keep lumping together to refute this fundamental point.

Eid happens twice a year while Salah happens 5 times a day.

Nevertheless, as your wishes...Your original post has been addressed multiple times and here it is ONE MORE TIME as to why you are barking up the wrong tree;

1. Event at Bradford DID NOT happen at a Mosque
2. Event at Bradford DID NOT happen at Eid Salah time
3. Event at Bradford had NO Connection with Eid or any other Salah
4. Event at Bradford was FULLY segregated

Considering 1-4 together, the issue has ZERO relevance to daily Salah, Friday Salah or Eid Salah.

Any current or future (similar) events will also not have any relevance or bearing to your points. You can bring in as many points as you like but they are mostly all irrelevant to your post.

It is indeed unfortunate that acts of worship have not given you the opportunity to reflect upon your behaviour that you slandered a number of Scholars based on misunderstanding. Your original premise and points were irrelevant and thus your deduction (and subsequent slander) absolutely uncalled for.

Most unfortunate indeed…

All you have to do is to revaluate your original premise and say that I was perhaps hasty and premature in drawing conclusions as the event was not linked to Salah and I am Sorry. I do wish to speak about Eid Salah and women attendance (that is a different point).

So you are now commenting on actions of Hanafi Scholars from the Hanbali Madhab about an event:

1. Which DID NOT happen in a Mosque
2. Which had NOTHING to do with Eid Salah
3. Which was COMPLETELY segregated
4. Which had NOTHING to do with (any Salah)

When we say that there are Ulama within the (Hanafi) Madhab who may have difference of opinion on the matter (of Eid Salah) you disregard but then you run and bring the Hanbali Madhab to comment on Hanafi Madhab.

Ever heard of differences of opinion?

[QUOTE=Concerned]

It is interesting to see the names of the ulama on those posters for gala dinners and family fun days. Just a little while back I personally heard Mufti AK Hosein say that it is forbidden for women to go to masjid. Apparently they can come to a fundraising dinner. I also personally heard Shaykh Abdur Rahim limbada say leave things as they are with respect to women and the maajid , we should consider ourselves fortunate. This was in a place where there is a blanket ban on women for eid salah and traveling ladies have to sit in the car while their husbands pray jumuah. Apparently they can come to a family fun day.

[/quote]

We can discuss anything you wish under the sun but first as stated come clean that you started a slanderous topic based on an event:

1. Which was NOT in a Mosque
2. Which had NOTHING to do with Salah
3. Which had NOTHING to with Eid Salah

What does family fun day has to  do with Fiqh position on Salah?

It’s plainly and simply written in English. Make the connection between family fun day and Salah (of any kind)

All you have to do is say that you perhaps overreacted, misunderstood and what you want to actually discuss is women and Salah (daily, Friday, Eid). The event which you started the discussion with HAS NOTHING to do with the topic which you WANT TO DISCUSS.

The reason the connection to Fitnah is not there is because of these reasons:

1. It is NOT a Mosque
2. It is a building in which there are PRAYER FACILITIES
3. These are separate and segregated locations for Brothers and Sisters
4. They are used by Sister all the time
5. The premises are fully segregated.
6. Sisters use these facilities all the time (7 days a week).

If it wasn’t family fun day it would have been some classes or event, let’s say there would have been a Tawjeed class at the same location on that day

I have been to it (not to the Sisters’ section of course)

So basically events are going on all the time and this was an event in a long line of events.

In fact as I write this, Sisters are probably in there learning or teaching etc.

You have decided (as you usually do) to make a point, lump multiple issues together and then hastily tried to draw conclusion. Your hasty conclusions would apply to any class in that building even today because events just keep on happening there all the time.

You fail to distinguish between various factors, nuances and circumstances.

The Ahadeeth of Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) are about Salah at Mosque, in your mind you are expanding that context and applying it to family fun day i.e. we all fully get what you are saying which is this:

If women are discouraged from attending Salah (at a Mosque) THEN HOW COME they are allowed to be on a family fun day? If women are discouraged to even emerge from Home without a necessity THEN HOW COME they are allowed to be on a family fun day? How and when did FUNDAY become a necessity in Islam?

Rationally and intellectually (in your mind) you may have a point for those Ulama who take the dislike of women attending Salah at a Mosque and apply it across the board. Your error in this instance that those ULAMA DO NOT allow fun days, either. The Ulama who allow fun days DO NOT extend the dislike of women attending Salah (at the Mosque) to ANY OTHER event where rules of segregation and separation are fulfilled.

What you need to do is this:

1. View women attending (daily normal) Salah at a Mosque as an issue
2. View fun days and other events as a separate issue
3. View Eid Salah as a third issue

As usual, you are not capable of such nuanced differentiation and contextualisation so you have lumped everything into a single basket and you “think” that you have a point. And then you have decided to bash Ulama because you “think” that your superior intellect has conjured up something which nobody has thought of before.