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abu mohammed
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#136 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 19:55
Concerned wrote:
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I'm referring to his actions of hiding up in the tree to scare his wife on her way to the masjid to PREVENT her from going. And he succeeded.

Is this what you have read about?

The Hadith have been quoted in threads before, possibly in the debates.
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#137 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 20:02
I can't recall hearing of that one from Umar radiyallhu anhu. If you find the reference please share.
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#138 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 20:17
Not to derive rulings but for general reference:

Hadees No 3 Narrated Ibn `Umar:

One of the wives of `Umar (bin Al-Khattab) used to offer the Fajr and the `Isha’ prayer in congregation in the Mosque. She was asked why she had come out for the prayer as she knew that `Umar disliked it, and he has great ghaira (self-respect). She replied, “What prevents him from stopping me from this act?” The other replied, “The statement of Allah’s Apostle (p.b.u.) : ‘Do not stop Allah’s women-slave from going to Allah s Mosques’ prevents him.”{Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari 900; Sahih Bukhari English translation: Vol. 2, Book 13, Hadith 23)

Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that Atika bint Zayd ibn Amr ibn Nufayl, the wife of Umar ibn al-Khattab, used to ask Umar ibn al-Khattab for permission to go to the mosque. He would keep silent, so she would say, “By Allah, I will go out, unless you forbid me,” and he would not forbid her.

(Muwatta Imam Malik English reference: Book 14, Hadith 14;Muwatta Imam Malik Arabic reference: Book 14, Hadith 471)

Also more similar reports here

www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e48.html

not really a fan of GF Haddad, but just for reference.
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#139 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 20:50
Concerned wrote:
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Concerned wrote:
Is there anything online regarding what you are referring to. I have read about this but I want to see exactly what you are referring to.


See below:

Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam wrote:
Sayyiduna Umar ibn al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) in his time felt that the concession given to women for attending the congregational prayers in the Mosque is sometimes being misused and could be misused even more in the future. He felt that women were no longer taking care of the Shariah requirements as they used to in the time of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), and he was also aware of the fact that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) advised women to offer their prayers at home. Hence, keeping all of the above in mind, he issued a verdict that women should no longer attend congregational prayers in the Masjid, and this decision of his was collectively accepted by the other Companions. (See: Ayni, Umdat al-Qari, 3/228)


(Source)

The full article at the link above is a quite beneficial and informative read. The quote may not be exactly what brother abu mohammed was referring to, but it is of course related. Again, I believe reading the full article will give the proper context.
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#140 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 22:36
Quote:
Abu Muhammad:
Commiting small sins in a get together will hold less of a sin in value than those commited inside of the Masjid, it's really very simple. That's why I asked on page two, why do people stop doing their regular sins inside of Ramadhan and then go back to them once Ramadhan was over. It's the value of the month! Similarly, its the value of the congregation (or Masjid).


I did not understand that you were trying to make that point in the first post about Ramadan, but I understand what you are saying now.

I said on page 7: "Perhaps you all are saying that there is a possibility of fitna and haram happening at these events, and since the Masjid is sanctified, we wont risk these things happening at the Masjid, so we will hold events at another location so if fitna and haram occurs it would be in an unsanctified place. Is this correct?"

I can understand if people want to use that as a justification for having different rules for the Masjid and different rules for events at other locations. I do not necessarily agree with it, but I can appreciate it, and it can be discussed. I would not be so quick to accept it as a reason for having different rules for Eid Salah in an open field. Why it took 10 pages for someone to clearly say that I do not know : ), especially since I already asked if that was the reason on page 7.

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#141 [Permalink] Posted on 16th March 2017 23:01
Quote:
Why it took 10 pages for someone to clearly say that I do not know : )

I said it on page 2 and Muadh repeated it over and over. Maybe you just didn't get it.

With regards to the companion who scared his wife from the tree and also pulled on her jilbab may not have been Umar رضي الله عنه. I'm trying to locate the Hadith on this forum
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#142 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2017 08:10
concerned wrote:
Why it took 10 pages for someone to clearly say that I do not know : )


It was said on page 2 and repeated many times. But you lack intelligence and are full of arrogance and still have to apologise for your slander.

The issue from the beginning has been inability to grasp the issue, your lack of intelligence to draw (correct) conclusions and your haste in throwing mud at others and slandering people without proof.

Nevertheless, as many people with lack of intelligence coupled with a monstrous ego you persist! Traits which a Muslim should actively work to improve specially ego otherwise it will take you to the fire of Hell.

A Muslim submits when they make an error as it is a sign of Humility.

A Narcissist persists in their errors because they are so much in love with themselves.


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#143 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2017 10:35
It didn't take ten pages.

xs11ax had the best response in the 2nd post, abu mohammed rhetorically asked in the 3rd post what he's just said again.

Lol.

Thanks for dragging me in too ;)
Asaaghir wrote:
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#144 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2017 12:09
Insults continue. I am not the first and probably will not be the last. If it makes you feel better to insult, go ahead.

Since you insist on insulting my intelligence let us look at Abu Muhammad's post on page 2:

Quote:
Double standards, reasons, fitnah and what else?


Nothing to do with the point on made on this page.

Quote:
If everything was so simple and logical, why do we wash the entire foot in wudhu, but when wearing leather socks (or similar) why do we WIPE only the TOP and NOT the BOTTOM?


This has nothing to do with the point he made on this page which I can appreciate.

Quote:
The masjid has a high level in the Deen, just like Ramadhan does. So why do people let go of sinning in Ramadhan, but knowingly do it outside of Ramadhan? Is it the virtue of the Month? Can it not be the virtue of the Masjid?


Firstly he was not making a statement, he was asking questions. Secondly this can be understood as using logic to question the reason for the virtue of the month, since his first portion of the post spoke about logic. And this actually suggest that people would value the Masjid and sin less in the Masjid, so it means that it would make sense to hold events for ladies in the Masjid, as people would respect the Masjid and keep away from sin more than in other locations. This is opposite to the point Abu Muhamad made on this page which I can appreciate.

I also specifically told Abu Muhammad that I did not understand what he was saying, and he switched the topic and started speaking about permissibly of attending celebrations, rather than make his point clear, as he did on this page.

Quote:
Similarly, there is also evidence from Shariah showing dislike of women attending Salah, and there is also evidence of women going/coming to see a celebration/party (focused more on the Eidain) referring to the Hadith of the entertainers with the spears etc whilst the wife of the Prophet rest her chin on the noble shoulders of our beloved (saw).


He also speaks about the dislike of women attending salah, but that does not make the point made on this page.

Even if it was clear as you all claim, then on page 7 you should have answered me and told me yes that is the point. No need to ignore my question.


So again, I can appreciate this point even if I do not agree with it:

Quote:
Abu Muhammad: Commiting small sins in a get together will hold less of a sin in value than those commited inside of the Masjid, it's really very simple.
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#145 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2017 12:44
I think I have made a mistake and I apologize for that.

it may not have been Umar رضي الله عنه. possibly Zubayr رضي الله عنه stopping his wife Atika by scaring her.
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#146 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2017 14:25
Quote:
Do you know what length Zubayr رضي الله عنه went through to stop his wife from attending the Masjid?

Wasn't that PREVENTION from Zubayr رضي الله عنه?


So the above is what you were trying to say. I would say that cannot be considered outright prevention, because he actually did not prevent here directly when he had the chance, he had to scare her to make the decision not to go her own self. And this is prevention from the Husband, not prevention from the Masjid itself (i.e a blanket ban on all women).

A summarized version of the story as mentioned by Sh. Abdur Raheem limbadada in an urdu bayan is as follows:

Atika R.A used to frequent the Masjid. She was married to the son of Abu Bakr R.A. He was martyred so then she married Umar R.A. Umar R.A. requested her to stop going to the Masjid. She responded by quoting the hadith of the Rasul Salalahu Alayhi Wasalam that allows women to go the Masjid. Umar R.A. said fine he would not oppose the hadith, but he wasn't happy. Umar R.A. was martyred so she married Zubair ibn Awwam R.A. He also told her to stop going to the Masjid. She again replied that the Prophet Salalahu ALayhi Wasalam allowed women to go. He said fine, but he was not happy. One night while she was on her way to the Masjid, he scared her. When she came home he asked her what happened. She said time has changed things are bad now, I will not go anymore. Zubair's R.A objective was accomplished.

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#147 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2017 14:36
Yes, that was the incident and as you can imagine, it was a genuine error. (I got the wife correct, but it was a different husband) Previous posts edited but not deleted (otherwise readers would wonder who said what and where)

Brother, You said:
Concerned wrote:
I can appreciate this point even if I do not agree with it:

Quote:
Abu Muhammad: Commiting small sins in a get together will hold less of a sin in value than those commited inside of the Masjid, it's really very simple.


InshaAllah that will suffice for now otherwise this thread will get locked just like all the other threads on the same topic. They get locked due to the bickering on difference of opinions which lead to fitnah and misunderstandings!
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#148 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2017 14:45

abu mohammed wrote:
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I think it should be enough for you to realise that this Troll is not interested in the topic at all.

He has his mind made up that visiting the Mosque by Women is H-A-R-A-M and that is the definitive opinion of the Hanafi Madhab.

The way to deal with a Troll is how CNN/MSNBC deal with Donald Trump and his surrogates, you hold them to one topic.

What you and others are doing are expanding the topic and that gives them more ammunition to simply digress, stand by and laugh.

Watch KellyAnne Conway, Sean Spicer and others perform on Live TV what this Brother has been doing for days.

The more information you provide, the more he will knit pick your own words and try to make an argument.

The way to deal with Trolls is to hunt in pairs and use the same strategy.

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#149 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2017 15:02
Well I requested you to discuss privately via email.and you declined. The only thing I see that is worthy of discussion and could possibly be a valid point would be the prohibition of Umar R.A. which is mentioned by the Ulama, and which Abu Muhammad also indicated to when he mentioned using the hadith of the Khulafa as proof, but as Abu Muhmmad said, we can leave it here for now.
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#150 [Permalink] Posted on 17th March 2017 15:26
Concerned wrote:
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The entire issue of Women and Masjid has absolutely nothing to do with JKN (Bradford) becuase the event wasn't at the Masjid.

I will now watch you skip statement in simple English and keep trolling!
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