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need confirmation about clash in Nizamuddin markaz in ramadhan

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#46 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2017 22:47
Daywalk3r wrote:
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When I used to bring up the issue of tablighis becoming extreme, I used to hear that this is only found in ignorant workers at the lower level, those higher up in the work teach something other than what the extreme brothers preach. I never bought that explanation simply because the extreme statements came from Jamats from every corner of the globe and even from those higher up who are speaking at regional ijtemas or local gatherings.
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#47 [Permalink] Posted on 12th January 2017 13:15
Concerned wrote:
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salaam.

in my experience its the other way around. the new ignorant members are ok. its the loyal purana sathis you have to watch out for.
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#48 [Permalink] Posted on 12th January 2017 16:27
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#49 [Permalink] Posted on 12th January 2017 18:26
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Sorry I wasn't clear. I was also referring to purani sathis, but local ones as opposed to those from nizamudin or raiwind.
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#50 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2017 11:06
xs11ax wrote:
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Wa Alaikum Assalam w.w

Hope ur doing well insha Allah..

ur wrong in saying this.. while real the problem is the other way around.. esp. Mewati, Jamnapar and youngsters in the effort since last 10 yrs.. fanatic followers of Maulana saad sahab.. who have made him "Hazratji" .. i shall write in some details later Insha Allah..

duas..

wa Assalam..
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#51 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2017 15:05
Bismillah.

Is Maulana Saad, a relation and descendant of Shaykh Ul Hadeeth Zakariyyah (rah) , And Maulana Ilyas Khandhalvi (rah) ?
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#52 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2017 15:56

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i feel both him and you are right. He's saying it based on his experience (which myself and others know is first hand close to many senior puranas in Yorkshire and England, going back about 25 years) and you based on yours (which im sure is also quite extensive). I personally also agree with him based on my expereince here in my area - the largest TJ stronghold in London. 

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#53 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2017 17:06
بسم الله الرحمن اللرحيم


(salam)



Hope everyone here is doing well إن شاء الله.. been a longtime since i posted.. but i do check new posts time & again..

Also just back from India tour.. Nizamuddin.. Mewat.. Aligarh.. met Hazrat Miyanji Phool Muhammed sahab (db) ( A 102 yr old buzurg from the times of Hazratji Maulana Ilyas sahab (rah) who now resides at his hometown in Mewat due to health issues ) .. Hazrat Dr Nadir Ali khan sahab (db) & our dear brother Maripat sahab.. a wonderful meeting after 5 yrs..

So on the issue being discussed here.. i refrained from posting since debates and arguments eat away precious time.. but wanted to add some details which are documented by ulema & Mashaikh..

To begin with.. the issue is not something new but decades old.. It raised its head at the demise of Hazratji Maulana Yousuf sahab (rah)..

There is a book named Tadhkirah Hazrat Maulana Muhammed Haroon Kandhelwi (rah) written by Hazrat Maulana Syed Muhammed Thani Hasani Nadwi (rah) which can be found here.

It shows those delicate moments faced by his son Hazrat Maulana Haroon sahab (rah) father of Maulana saad sahab.. a tarbiyat yafta buzurg and Khalifa of Hazrat Shaikhul Hadeeth Maulana Zakariyya sahab Kandhelwi (rah)..

A section of Mewatis were driven by vested interests and at that time were plotting to use Hazrat Maulana Haroon sahab (rah) into their game and wanted to make him the Ameer of Tableegh.. but Maulana (rah) saw through them and put his foot down staying firm on the Mashwara made by Shaikhul Hadeeth Maulana Zakariyya sahab (rah) that the next Ameer would be Hazratji Maulana Inamul Hassan sahab (rah)

They tried their best to influence him but failed.. The New Ameer by the fadl of Allah سبحانه وتعالى took Tj to new heights.. Hazratji Maulana Inamul Hasan sahab (rah) was also a mountain of spirituality like his predecessors.. he had also made a shura during his time.. and whatever issues rose, himself asked to keep it in the Mashwara..

unlike these Mashaikh.. Maulana saad sahab was raised with a golden spoon.. he did not witness the work progress from the previous Ameer.. nor was he there except for a few years of the last Ameer...

The Major problem here was the absence of tarbiyyah.. after Hazratji Maulana Inamul hasan sahab (rah) passed away.. Hazrat Maulana Iftikharul Hasan sahab Kandhelwi (db) was appointed to train & guide Maulana saad sahab.. but at one instance he insulted him on some matter and Maulana left Nizamuddin saying " neither did his father or his grandfather ever speak to me this way".

Maulana did not return for the next six months.. and only after Maulana saad sahab went to apologise did he return to Nizamuddin.. but never took residence there..

Years passed and Maulana Saad sahab skilled himself in oration capturing the minds of youngsters.. he introduced Muntakhab Hadeeth to be read along Fadhail Amal against the Mashwara of world Shura.. those who opposed him were either reprimanded or dispersed away forever from Markaz..

My Shaikh Hazrat Miyanji Abdur Rahman sahab (rah) was amongst those reprimanded by Maulana saad sahab for saying 'Fazail Amaal was the book agreed by world shura to be read in tableegh '.

Over the years he gained popularity with youngsters esp. those new to the effort.. his oration carved a leader into their hearts.. while Maulana continued to play with Ayaat of Qur'an , Hadith, Seerat according to his own whims & fancies, against the united opinion of ulema..Muhadditheen & Mufassireen..

The people of the world shura passed away one by one.. the old saathis felt the need to fill the vacuum and many times tried to bring the subject in Mashwara but were not successful due to some reason or the other..

A large section of the new breed of Tableeghis indulged in ghuloo.. ulema were stopped from giving friday khutbah at some places..instead some saathi stepped in to talk.. Dars of Qur'an was stopped at other places to be taken over by Fazail amal or Muntakhab.. Imams at masajids were only deemed qualified if they spent 1 yr or 4 months in Jamaats.. and many such practices prevailed.. those who opposed were termed as Mukhalifs & removed from the effort..

Things went on somehow till the death of Hazrat Maulana Zubairul hasan sahab kandhelwi (rah) on 18th March 2014.. thats where things began spiraling downwards to where it has reached now...

Later that year, at the Ijtema in Bhopal, Maulana Saad sahab started taking bayat from general public on his hands in the silsila of Hazratji Maulana Ilyas sahab (rah).. this caused a major stir since he had NO khilafat in the silsila of Hazratji Maulana Ilyas sahab (rah) and was against the unanimous decision by the world shura which had banned Ijtemayi bayat after the passing away of the last Ameer of Tableegh..

He also made some other controversial statements at that ijtema.. like saying that people do not spend in Tableegh but on bringing close two private parts of men and women... some Muftiyan karam took strong objection to insulting the sunnah of Nikaah with such obscenity..

Thats were trouble began.. some hundred mewatis with weapons started pouring into Nizamuddun.. clashes erupted at the slightest instance and the room of Maulana Zuhairul Hasan sahab (db) ( The son of Hazrat Maulana Zubairul Hasan sahab (rah) ) was ransacked..Maulana luckily was unharmed.. these Mewati hoodlooms were given a free run and kept unchecked by Maulana saad sahab..

Later at one Mashwara that year Maulana Saad sahab proclaimed " Khuda ki qasam... main tum sab ka Ameer hoon.. jo na maane Jahannum me jaye " ( By Allah ! Iam the Ameer of all of you.. those who do not agree can go to hell ) ( i have recording of this mashwara )

Matters took ugly turn when police stepped in Markaz.. something which never happened in past.. Maulana again took false oaths that those who caused trouble had nothing to do with him.. while one of them hid in his own room !

Then at the Raiwind ijtema a Mashwara was made where the Mashaikh of Nizamuddin.. Raiwind.. Kakrayel (Bangladesh ) gathered to form a New Shura where the only person to object was Maulana Saad sahab..

The New world Shura was made on 16th November 2015


Maulana Saad sahab returned back and formed his own Shura at Nizamuddin which included his 20 yr old son and excluded many of those in the effort since the time of Hazratji Maulana Yousuf sahab (rah).. while youngsters had already began writing him as "Hazratji".

There was none to check Maulana now.. and he went on to make some dangerous statements as regards to deen and Aqaid.. like Hidayat is not in the hands of Allah سبحانه وتعالى... ulema who teach at madaris and draw salaries are akin to prostitutes taking fare.. iyadu billah min zaalik.. and many such statements..

Mashwara at Nizamuddin was being constantly stalled by Mewati hoodlums and those who opposed Maulana Saad sahab where threatened..thats when the Akabir started to move out of Nizamuddin.. they could not see the work hijacked by thugs & hoodlums.. tacitly supported by Maulana Saad sahab..

One by one the Mashaikh departed.. and the last one was Hazrat Maulana Ibrahim sahab Dewla (db)

They began to hold ijtema and Mashwara at other places..while Hazrat Maulana Ibrahim sahab Dewla (db) teaches Bukhari shareef at Tadkheshwar.. he said he would return when things return to Normal..

Many other Mashaikh have received threats over fone if they ever return to Nizamuddin..

Amongst those residing there is Hazrat Dr Syed Abdul Aleem sahab (db) from Aligarh about whom Hazrat Dr Nadir Ali khan sahab (db) said " Dr Abdul Aleem sahab told Maulvi Saad that i do not agree with you.. iam only staying here with the desire that my last breath passes here "

The rest as we know the Deoband Fatwa came.. and Maulana saad sahab managed to gather some supporters on his side.. making things more ugly..

He was banned from entry to Bangladesh Ijtema by the Shura there and was also offloaded due to directives by Bangladesh high comission.. then by interference of some ulema he managed to fly to bangladesh on the condition that he would not make any speeches there..

So this is what is going on.. very sad to see a great effort tear away.. while the older ones cry to see all this happening before their eyes.. the younger ones are more eager to install their new.. desperate Hazratji..

While Mashaikh hint at a well planned conspiracy by Batil agents to dent this blessed work.. using Maulana Saad sahab as a Pawn..

May Allah سبحانه وتعالى protect this work and render all those helpless who keep plotting against the works of deen.. Ameen..

duas..

wa Assalam..
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#54 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2017 17:06
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salaam brother,

alhamdolillah i am doing well with your duas. jazakallah khair for asking.

please explain more.
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#55 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2017 17:10
Abdur Rahman ibn Awf wrote:
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Maulana Saad sahab is the Maternal Great Grandson of Shaikhul Hadith Hazrat Maulana Zakariyya sahab (rah) and is the son of Hazrat Maulana Haroon sahab (rah) bin Hazratji Maulana Yousuf sahab (rah) bin Hazratji Maulana Ilyas sahab (rah)

wa Assalam..
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#56 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2017 17:36
Beautifully summed up in english by dr76 sahb. Just a minor correction "Maulana Ibrahim sahab Dewla (db) teaches Bukhari shareef at Jamiah Uloomul Quran-Jambusar and not at Tadkheshwar".

Not sure regarding the authenticity about being offloaded from the plane to Bangladesh or not allowed to make speeches.
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#57 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2017 17:59
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Jazakh'Allah Khair....One of the unique things about Tabligh Jamaat was that no splinter groups had formed
unlike other efforts around the world... In most cases if a group remains united for a period of time... then it normally splinters after the original founder passes away. The fact it had remained united for so many decades was a miracle and a Mercy from ALLAH.

From what you have stated there does not seem to be any return from the downward spiral and those who have instigated the internal coupe seem unrepentant.

So would it be safe to say that this is the end of Tabligh Jamaat as we know it with many splinter groups forming in the near future around the world ? .... Interestingly the Tablighis I have come across here in the U.K. dont seem to have much knowledge of Maulana Saad, there focal point and obsession is with Maulana Tariq Jameel (DB).
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#58 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2017 18:05
There are two issues at play from what i can see:

1 - The leadership issue/'tussle'
2 - The issue of taking TJ to the extreme and going into issues where traditionally TJs dont get involved in (i.e masail)

Issue 1 Dr76 has elaborated on and also can be heard via this talk from last Oct www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTuEhFVVwog (given in a gathering which the description says Molana Ahmed Laat was also present)

Issue 2 from what i can see prompted Deoband etc to issue a statement - theres very little / nothing to say that Deoband issued that public statement last month due to issue 1 (besides the issue that Dr76 has said "continued to play with Ayaat of Qur'an , Hadith, Seerat according to his own whims & fancies, against the united opinion of ulema..Muhadditheen & Mufassireen" & "make some dangerous statements as regards to deen and Aqaid" which from what I can see falls into issue 2 not 1(.

On the issue of extreme TJ statements and/or acts theres other videos and articles too such as from Mufti Taqi Usmani, Mufti Mohammed ibn Adam (not a major world aalim but still well known young aalim in UK), Mufti Saeed Ahmed Palanpuri, Molana Esa Mansuri = those are the ones I know of and have heard/read (ALL are on the internet for anyone to watch and read). Mufti Saeed's one i was sat in personally when he gave the talk.

Jazakallahkhair Dr76 for the detailed info. Many others would probs sadly dress it up as "differences between our elders are a mercy on us" :-( i.e. total BS...

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#59 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2017 18:34
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Personally, I don't think either are fit for Tabligh for many reasons.

The obsession the Brit's have will most definitely get more people joining the salafi.

If the advise of the fuqaha is taken, then people should refrain from listening to such people. We are not knowledgeable enough to determine if what is being said is weak or many times fabricated. The Brit's are being misled by Ulama.

Oh,
Unless there's been a disclaimer or an apology and everything has been corrected :)
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#60 [Permalink] Posted on 13th January 2017 19:31
Establish a markaz in Deoband under the watchful eyes of the senior Indian ulamah and InshaAllah it will be become the HQ until the fitnah at nizamuddin is cleared.
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