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Muadh_Khan
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#31 [Permalink] Posted on 13th July 2016 12:28

talibeilm wrote:
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Tableeghi Jamaat is badly needed in the West as it is the ONLY TRUE soruce of Dawah (done right), I know they have mistakes.

  1. Salafees can go extinct
  2. Sufees can go extinct
  3. Barelwees can go extinct
  4. Deobandees can go extinct
  5. Hanafees can go extinct

But damage to Tableeghi Jamaat will mean that majority of the Masajid and communities will have NO OUTLET for youngsters and the next generation.

When you travel in Europe and parts of America you realise how desperate our situation is in many communitied. It is Tableeghi Jamaat which livens up these backwater towns which nobody visits!

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#32 [Permalink] Posted on 13th July 2016 13:38
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Done right.

thats the important part. Hazratji Ilyas rahimahullah made dark predictions of the consequences if not done right. sadly we are seeing everything come undone because his instructions were not followed. he did say if not done right this work would lead to fitnas if im not mistaken. people used to go in jamaats for their own islah, now its about growing the work and reaching people mostly, be usooli even is done so that work is made easier

a major cleansing is needed and ive been making dua for years for it silently

salafis reach people because of they style, reach and presentation
barelwis reach people because they have followers move on from generation to generation and there are always people who want to use deen for dunyawi barkat
sufees arent growing because they have no reach, the mureedeen of different mashaikh dont have ilm of tasawwuf as ilm of tasawwuf is essential to the path and there is lack of zikrullah and mujahida in existing places
hanafis arent growing because theres too much politics in their organizations (this is a guess from the little ive seen)
deobandis arent growing because they are leaving the manhaj of their elders in ilm, fikr and roohaniyat

Allahu alam
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#33 [Permalink] Posted on 13th July 2016 13:56
Muadh_Khan wrote:
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Most sincere people suppose to have intention to purify themselves and take any objection seriously so that they can either make it clear that objection has no ground in the light of shariah or investigates about the objection and makes it right. Most sincere people doesnt brush any objection under the carpet just because their elders are involve in it or the objection was raised by another manhajs people. Sh.yousuf kandhlawi rh told to welcome the critisize of the other so that one can purify themselves. The tablighis themselves dont find any problem with each other, tey leave it to the elders and keep engaging in those mistakes without correcting. If one has sect mentality they will look other as sect too. Be a ummati, and look others as a ummati.
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#34 [Permalink] Posted on 13th July 2016 14:48

abu nusayba wrote:
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Innocence and sincerity doesn’t mean that the criticism is valid and should be perused. My 4 year child is both so should I take her advice on my next car or our next house?

Let’s put the whole situation in perspective.

Tableeghi Jamaat was a small project by Shaykh (Maulana) Ilyas Kandhalwi (RA) to reform the people of Mewat. He encouraged them to come closer to Islam. He went through several iterations of programs before settling to the procedure of going in Jamaat.

How or why he arrived at this procedure is irrelevant to my point.

Like any other small project (of any kind in the world) he turned to his family for support. He was never a good orator or writer so he turned to his Nephew to write small booklets to encourage people.

These series of booklets were found to be beneficial to the masses of Mewat.

When the work expanded and extended, the same booklets were found to be beneficial to India.

Like expansion of any other business (he continued to rely) upon family, friends and close connections. It is clear from his biographies.

Arabs were always encouraged to study Riyadus-Saliheen from day one.

As early as 1960s when (Maulana) Yusuf Kandhalwi (RA) became Ameer he realised that the work was expanding and authored Hayatus-Sahaba (RA). So you can see Shura adapting to change.

This was the time when 4 Months officially came into the Picture.

In 1965 came the first official split since (Maulana) Inaamul Hasan Kandhalwi (RA) was considered a lightweight in terms of Academia to be following in the footsteps of a Giant like (Maulana) Yusuf Kandhalwi (RA).

The 1970s saw great turmoil in the shape of splitting of Pakistan, crack down on Jamaat-e-Islami and the rise of Salafiyyah.

Tableeghi Jamaat had to deal with global challenges on multiple fronts culminating with Afghan Jihad.

In the 1970s is when Shaykhul-Hadeeth (Maulana) Zakairiyya (RA) and his works were targeted. He looked at all of the objections, classified them and responded to them in detail. He didn’t comment on Fabrications because he never included any fabrications deliberately.

I have read his Lessons on Saheeh Bukhari and his opinion on Fabrication is in line with Scholars of Hadeeth so he made mistakes (who hasn’t).

His opinion on Taqleed is divergent with Deobandi opinion on Taqleed (Shaksi).

His opinion on differences is very relaxed as evident in his book on the topic.

In the 1980s when the work can truly be said to be becoming Global. Here we now see (Maulana) Ihsan and the likes (of him) revisiting the Fazail-e-Amaal topic again until Muntakhab-Hadeeth is published in 1990s. He wrote the book throughout this decade.

In the 1986 America Mushwara, America was granted provision to read Riyadus-Saleheen and it is on record. The zealot Tableeghees continued to inflict Fazail-e-Amaal upon America. Due to divergence from Mushwara Maryland, Florida and other Markaz split into groups and turmoil resulted.

England was approved for American Muslims to spend 4 months in Jamaat (disastrous decision in my opinion). My personal reasons are that due to this reason the multicultural work in America became PAKI-fied!

On a global scale, we see the beginning of “Masjid-Wali Jamaat” but 2 ½ Hours was recommended. By 1998 this became the official line. In 2003/2004 it was conveyed that this is too much for many people in the West so 2 ½ Hours was slightly diluted (for Western Muslims) but remained in force for Pakistan (and it still does).

In between (Maulana) Inaamul Hasan Kandhalwi (RA) passed away.

Second battle for succession follows.

(Maulana) Inaamul Hasan Kandhalwi (RA) might have been a lightweight but he provided stability at the Helm. The absence of Ameer for the past 2 decades has resulted in a rudderless ship!

This has resulted in various factions jockeying for power.

I suspect that Indian Intelligence is involved. Common Knowledge that ISI is involved in Raiwind Markaz.

In summary, How in the world can anyone say that they DON’T RESPOND or CHANGE? They do, but it is a global organisation and we only see it in the context of our country or our Mosque or city.

Please understand that I am not JUSTIFYING THE ERRORS OF TABLEEGHI JAMAAT. But Saudi Scholars of 1970s wrote, “Tell me which group doesn’t make mistakes?”

My dear Shaykh (Maulana) Inaamul Hasan Kandhalwi (RA) used to say to us, Tableegh teaches you 3 things:

  1. Mauqa Shanasi: Judge the Occasion
  2. Mardam Shanasi: Judge the Man
  3. Mizaj Shanasi: Judge the Mood

They have been running THE ONLY GLOBAL ISLAMIC organisation for close to 100 years and despite all the opposition and hatred it has not retreated but expanded. They MUST BE doing something right!

I have to be pragmatic and judge the work on the results. It needs improvements, it needs tinkering and it needs evaluation. I agree with all of those but in my humble opinion IT NEEDS AN AMEER!

Tableeghi Jamaat is showing signs of lack of leadership; and it needs to be fixed ASAP.

In a similar time period since Tableeghi Jamaat:

  1. Deobandees have come and gone, well they came before but you know what I am saying here...
  2. Jamaat-e-Islami have come and gone
  3. Ikhwanul-Muslimees have come and gone
  4. Ahrar have come and gone
  5. HT have come and gone
  6. Salafees have come and gone
  7. Sufees have come and gone

Only someone with blind hatred towards Tableeghi Jamaat cannot see that despite having problems they are still GLOBAL and still MASSIVE.

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#35 [Permalink] Posted on 13th July 2016 15:38
there is no Ameer because the followers were/are not ready to accept the appointed Ameer. this was mentioned by Hazratji Inamul Hasan rahimahullah when he made shuras in different countries because people (old workers) started objecting to the person chosen by Hazratji. a person with opposing ideas to their Ameer was seen as a threat (for many reasons). the lack of ilm and zikr was the reason for this. on another angle, respect towards ulama and mashaikh was the reason for this. from another angle actually understanding what "growth in the work" meant was a reason for this. from another angle, when some countries or states within countries saw more results in the particular method they followed, chose to go against mashwara and stick to it because they thought it would result in the work (numbers) decreasing. plainly no itaa'at

the elders of local shura kept pushing for results and those results could not be achieved because the restrictions were too many to produce results

people forgot/ forget that your product may be great, positioning, marketing and advertising A1 but Allah Ta'alas HELP is not dependent upon that. The help of Allah will come due to the ikhlas, mujahida and nisbat of the workers actually doing the work. thats why even though the others reach people and their product is good, they end up in fitna

an active worker knows why the work has grown (and now reached a stand still in many countries)

amassing big gatherings and having work happening (in a weak form) is not a sign of acceptance

if the sathis (brothers) dont appear in daily mashwara they are visited, encouraged (talked down on sometimes) and forced to attend. so such a person goes from being a worker to a participant. he has to be there because people think ill of him, they will not regard him as a pious person anymore. something like peer pressure

all over the world, the numbers are maintained by new sathis, the number of old sathis are decreasing, sathis doing the work properly becoming extinct

i agree it needs an ameer. but ameer for who? the people have to accept the ameer

but there is a bigger reason for the work to decline world wide. it is a topic to be expanded upon. but i will touch on it here and reply later if it hasnt upset anybody and i have more time

doubtful/ haram money/ earnings being used to fund the work

i know some sathis still think the work happens without donations, but thats not the case and money is taken from people who can give, even if they are not deeni or earn haram

this applies to khanqahs of zikr, madaris and masaajid as well. not only tabligh. everyone has justified use of money earned in doubtful and haram ways

and what have people become used to now? when the reason has been found that has kept away the Help of Allah, they resort to tactics to hurt people who say so and justify taking this haram money

the objective of any effort of deen is the improvement of deen itself not increase in the work and numbers

malfoozat of ml ilyas has the reasons for growth, reasons for decline and solution to get back on track
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#36 [Permalink] Posted on 13th July 2016 19:04
salaam

when we talk about the sathis who are not willing to accept an ameer; are we talking about purana sathis and those who are not purana, but are regular in the effort and have some understanding of the effort.

or are we talking about new sathis who do not have understanding of the work?
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#37 [Permalink] Posted on 13th July 2016 20:35
Purana sathis of course. New people will never object to it. They do as they are told. It's the people who think they've made sacrifice hence they have a say in things that cause issues. This is at country and state level.

On a world level there seems to be no one who is on the manhaj of Maulana Ilyas Rahimahullah. Not like him but on his manhaj. He was the mujaddid. Not anyone else. Small changes can be done from there over time. But when an effort becomes so old and so widespread, group mentality and abuse of power and position becomes hard to control.

May the garden of Maulana Ilyas Rahimahullah keep flourishing. May Allah Ta'ala remove the weeds and cleanse the work. Indeed this work is the need of the hour
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#38 [Permalink] Posted on 13th July 2016 20:46
By not on the manhaj of Maulana Ilyas Rahimahullah I meant there is no one or seems to be no one who is on his manhaj who can be appointed Ameer and be accepted by the old workers. Taking into consideration Indo Pak dynamics etc
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#39 [Permalink] Posted on 15th July 2016 20:53
salaam

having an ameer and following one is one of the fundamental principles of tabligh jamaat. "a jamaat without an ameer has shaitan as its ameer". this has been the constant refrain of tabligh jamaat ever since i can remember.

if purana sathis and other regular members are becoming an obstacle in choosing and following an ameer, then there must be something fundamentally wrong.

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#40 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2017 12:48
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#41 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2017 16:49
Attached image of signatures for ease of access or sharing around on whats app etc.

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#42 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2017 20:04
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#43 [Permalink] Posted on 10th January 2017 20:32
I take it that the gist of the entire issue is taking TJ to the extreme ... (including belittling other accepted routes to spiritual reformation). If so....then that is the EXACT reason of my own clear/open opposition to local TJs in my area for the past near 10 years (i banned them from my house years ago). This has nothing whatsoever to do with criticising TJ generally...not an iota (may Allah protect the work and our hearts from such dark thoughts). But course when you criticise your labelled a Tablighophobe despite explaining clearly its the way certain TJ individuals take TJ to the extreme (by their speech and behavior) that you have an issue with and not the effort in general. I say that privately and publicly (when/if asked) in my area to ensure locals know exactly where i stand.

May Allah protect the work and us all from extremism.

p.s. Wrt the 'fatwa approach' personally I would have preferred rather then issue a fatwa if those who signed off it went their directly first in person to speak 1-2-1 (and included in their delegation major world reknown Deobandi scholars such as Mufti Taqi Usmani, Mufti Rafi Usmani, Shaykh Yunus Jaunpuri, Mufti Saeed Palanpuri, Mufti Ahmed Khanpuri and Molana Salman Nadwi) ....
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#44 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2017 00:53
It wasn't a fatwa, it was to ask Maulana to retract his statements as they were going off Orthodox positions. When deoband issued it, senior muftis and ulemas at deoband were consulted. saharanpur and Dabhel ifta also issued their support to deobands statement.

Mufti saeed palanpuri is based at deoband, mufti Ahmed khanpuri is at Dabhel, shaykh yunus jaunpuri is at saharanpur.

Deobands statement has created a misconception that it's against tabligh but rather it was to correct the position of one individual at nizamuddin markaz.
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#45 [Permalink] Posted on 11th January 2017 22:31
So has maulana Saad retracted or explained the problematic statements he allegedly made?
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