Asrar Rashid against abdur rahman hasan

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 20th May 2016 09:58
I know it is probably not very important in terms of our priorities but hey everyone likes a boxing match. So recently there has been some activity on the proposed debate between asrar rashid and abdur rahman hasan.

The actual topic is tawasul through the messenger of ALLAH sallahualahualhiwasalam after he sallahualayhiwasalam has been veiled from the world. On this issue we are in agreement with Asrar Rashid and oppose abdur rahman hasan.

Please see the position of ahlus sunnah on the issue below;

www.central-mosque.com/index.php/Aqeedah/tawassul-and-its...
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#2 [Permalink] Posted on 20th May 2016 11:55
Quote:
On this issue we are in agreement with Asrar Rashid and oppose abdur rahman hasan.


I would put it slightly differently :)

On this issue, Asrar Rashid is in agreement with the Deobandi's :) :) :) and oppose Abdur Rahman Hasan
(Although I haven't seen or heard what either of them have to say).

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd May 2016 17:26
What did everyone think of the debate?
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 23rd May 2016 18:59

I disagree with both Asrar Rashid and Abdur Rahman Hasan on the topic and here is why:

  1. Istimdaad: Asrar Rashid believes that Istimdaad of Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is Mustahab (preferred) i.e. saying YA RASUL-ULLAH (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassalalm) MADAD if your car breaks down or any other issue, I D-I-S-A-G-R-E-E
  2. Tawassul: Abdur Rahman Hasan believes that Tawassul of Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is Bid'aa (innovation) after his pasing away i.e. saying YA ALLAH I MAKE DUA TO YOU THROUGH THE RANK AND STATURE OF RASUL-ULLAH (Sallalaho Alaihe Wassalalm) if your car breaks down or any other issue, I D-I-S-A-G-R-E-E

And no I don't have 4 Hours of my life to donate to these 2.

Neither a Sooofee nor a Selfie!

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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2016 06:55
Nor a selfie?? Why hazrat??
Selfies are quite popular nowadays. :D
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2016 09:50
50
The amount of time of Muslims wasted by them and people like them should get them worried.
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2016 10:38
salaam

a few questions...

is tawassul of the prophet (saw) after his passing a bidah in the sense that there is no precedence for it from...

1. the time of the prophet (saw) before his passing (obviously)?

and

2. the time of the salaf after the passing of the prophet (saw)?

or are there examples of tawassul of the prophet (saw) after his passing from the salaf?
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 24th May 2016 14:50
Maripat wrote:
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To be honest with you the best statement was by brother Dilwar the journalist who was the chair of the debate. He said in these troubling times should we be debating this? Originally I had thought it was a debate on tasawul but then it turned out to be one on istigatha. Asrar did better than abdur rahman but both were hardly impressive.
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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 25th May 2016 08:26
london786 wrote:
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I too agree with the sentiments of brother Dilawar.
That excruciating theological hair splitting that went on and on in the discussions on the Islamic Awakening forum was an eye opener - there useless talk can be done in theology itself and with what relish!

Clearly we have to design and develop a policy towards Barelwis and a policy towards GMs.
That way we may liberate some time for the problems faced by Ummah from external sources.

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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 25th May 2016 17:34
Tawassul of the Prophet (SAW) after his death is not a bidah. The Sahaba used to do it after his death. It is a straightforward issue, but the Salafis are too over-whelmed with Tawheed, that they start denying even the agreed upon opinions of Ahl e Sunnah Wal Jamaah.
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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2016 15:22

xs11ax wrote:
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Tawassul during the lifetime of Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam):

عن عثمان بن حنيف أن رجلاً ضرير البصر أتى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، فقال : ادع الله أن يعافيني . فقال صلى الله عليه وسلم : (إن شئت دعوت لك ، وإن شئت أخّرتُ ذاك ، فهو خير لك. [وفي رواية : (وإن شئتَ صبرتَ فهو خير لك)] ، فقال : ادعهُ. فأمره أن يتوضأ ، فيحسن وضوءه ، فيصلي ركعتين ، ويدعو بهذا الدعاء : اللهم إني أسألك ، وأتوجه إليك بنبيك محمد نبي الرحمة ، يا محمد إني توجهتُ بك إلى ربي في حاجتي هذه ، فتقضى لي ، اللهم فشفّعه فيَّ وشفّعني فيه) . قال : ففعل الرجل فبرأ
 

Narrated from ‘Uthmaan ibn Haneef that a blind man came to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and said: Pray to Allah to heal me. The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “If you wish, I shall pray for you; and if you wish, I shall delay that for you and that will be better for you.” [According to another report, he said: “… Or if you wish, you can be patient and that will be better for you.”] He said: Pray for me (now). So he instructed him to do wudoo’ and do it well, then to pray two rak‘ahs and say this du‘aa’ (supplication): “O Allah, I ask You and I turn to You by virtue of Your Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy. O Muhammad, I turn by virtue of you to my Lord concerning this need of mine, that it might be met for me. O Allah, accept his intercession concerning me and accept my intercession concerning him.” So the man did that and he was healed. [Ahmed]

Grade: Authentic

Tawassul during the lifetime of Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) & After:

وعن عثمان بن حنيف أن رجلا كان يختلف إلى عثمان بن عفان في حاجة له فكان عثمان لا يلتفت إليه ولا ينظر في حاجته فلقي عثمان بن حنيف فشكا ذلك إليه فقال له عثمان بن حنيف : ائت الميضأة فتوضأ ثم ائت المسجد فصل فيه ركعتين ، ثم قل : اللهم إني أسألك وأتوجه إليك بنبينا محمد - صلى الله عليه وسلم - نبي الرحمة ، يا محمد إني أتوجه بك إلى ربي فيقضي لي حاجتي ، وتذكر حاجتك ، ورح إلي حين أروح معك فانطلق الرجل فصنع ما قال له ثم أتى باب عثمان فجاء البواب حتى أخذ بيده فأدخله على عثمان بن عفان فأجلسه معه على الطنفسة وقال : حاجتك ؟ فذكر حاجته فقضاها له ثم قال له : ما ذكرت حاجتك حتى كانت هذه الساعة ، وقال : ما كانت لك من حاجة فائتنا ، ثم إن الرجل خرج من عنده فلقي عثمان بن حنيف فقال له : جزاك الله خيرا ما كان ينظر في حاجتي ولا يلتفت إلي حتى كلمته في ، فقال عثمان بن حنيف : والله ما كلمته ولكن شهدت رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - وأتاه رجل ضرير فشكا إليه ذهاب بصره فقال له النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - : " أو تصبر ؟ " فقال : يا رسول الله إنه ليس لي قائد وقد شق علي ، فقال له النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - : " ائت الميضأة فتوضأ ثم صل ركعتين ثم ادع بهذه الكلمات " فقال عثمان بن حنيف : فوالله ما تفرقنا وطال بنا الحديث حتى دخل عليه الرجل كأنه لم يكن به ضرر قط

 

Tabarani, in his “al-Mu’jam al saghir,” reports a hadith from ‘Uthman ibn Hunayf that a man repeatedly visited Uthman ibn Affan (Allah be pleased with him) concerning something he needed, but Uthman paid no attention to him or his need. The man met Ibn Hunayf and complained to him about the matter – this being after the death (wisal) of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and after the caliphates of Abu Bakr and Umar – so Uthman ibn Hunayf, who was one of the Companions who collected hadiths and was learned in the religion of Allah, said: “Go to the place of ablution and perform ablution (wudu), then come to the mosque, perform two rak’as of prayer therein, and say:

‘O Allah, I ask You and turn to You through our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy; O Muhammad (Ya Muhammad), I turn through you to my Lord, that He may fulfill my need,’ and mention your need. Then come so that I can go with you [to the caliph Uthman].” So the man left and did as he had been told, then went to the door of Uthman ibn Affan (Allah be pleased with him), and the doorman came, took him by the hand, brought him to Uthman ibn Affan, and seated him next to him on a cushion. ‘Uthman asked, “What do you need?” and the man mentioned what he wanted, and Uthman accomplished it for him, then he said, “I hadn’t remembered your need until just now,” adding, “Whenever you need something, just mention it.” Then, the man departed, met Uthman ibn Hunayf, and said to him, “May Allah reward you! He didn’t see to my need or pay any attention to me until you spoke with him.” Uthman ibn Hunayf replied, “By Allah, I didn’t speak to him, but I have seen a blind man come to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) and complain to him of the loss of his eyesight. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, “Can you not bear it?’ and the man replied, ‘O Messenger of Allah, I do not have anyone to lead me around, and it is a great hardship for me.’ The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) told him, ‘Go to the place of ablution and perform ablution (wudu), then pray two rak’as of prayer and make the supplications.'” Ibn Hunayf went on, “By Allah, we didn’t part company or speak long before the man returned to us as if nothing had ever been wrong with him.”

  1. Imam Tabarani (RA) authenticated this Hadeeth in his book
  2. Imam Ibn Haj'r Haythami (RA) authenticated this Hadeeth
  3. Imam Mundhiri (RA) authenticated this Hadeeth

Shaykh Al-Albani (RA) graded this narration as weak and EVEN if the Selfies take that opinion they cannot deny that many Imams of Hadeeth authenticated it.

Selfies are therefore forced to admit that this isn't Haram or Shirk (for that matter) but a Bid'ah Tawassaul (according to them).

Read further here:

www.central-mosque.com/index.php/Beliefs/tawassul-and-its...

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 26th May 2016 22:34
Going through the life history of Imam Bukhari (RA), I found a very interesting story today.

Rain was not coming down in a particular city. The people of the city gathered and went to the grave of Imam Bukhari (RA). They made dua through the tawasul of Imam Bukhari (RA), and also did istishfaah (i.e, asking Imam Bukhari (RA) to make dua for them infront of Allah), and the rain came down heavily.

Many other interesting facts in life history of Imam Bukhari (RA), which show that his aqaaid included tawasul and getting faiz and barakah from graves, etc.

I am of the opinion that such deep and technical aqeedah issues should not be discussed in public, but Imam Bukhari (RA) was completely different from the aqaaid of today's salafis.
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 27th May 2016 10:16
when and where is right time to do tawassul? i dont have an issue with it but same time its not something that was common amongst sahaba. also there is that hadith salafis use in bukhari where it says ' we used to make tawassul through rasoolullah (saw) when he was alive then after he passed away we made taawssul through al abbas رضي الله عنه. my question is why didnt they just continue make tawassul through rasoolullah (saw)

also on a side note is the following shirk, when ever i go umrah and when i stand infront of the prophets (saw) grave i ask him directly to make dua for me with the belief he is able to see and hear me, is this allowed? inshAllah i am goin in ramadan should i avoid this practice.
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