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abu mohammed, Jinn, bint e aisha, sipraomer
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#76 [Permalink] Posted on 10th August 2019 07:56
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Maripat, how do we know it is not all part of the ‘mediation process’ the Modi suggested to Trump, and to which IK agreed ?

From the circumstantial evidence I doubt it.
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Every one knows the military solution to the issue of Kashmir is difficult, if not impossible. Pakistani soldiers are not Sahaba, and they have tried 2-3 times to snatch Kashmir from India by force, and failed. The same goes for India, they can not occupy Pakistani held Kashmir by force...

As an Indian it is not possible for me to opine on this angle.
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What, if some “wise” people on both sides, decided to ‘resolve’ the issue (against the will of Kashmiri people) by accepting LOC as international border, and live peacefully from there onward ?

Though Shah-Modi duo do not spell it but their current move is consistent with this scenario.

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Please consider a few points :

• No apparent military solution to the issue, specially now, when both countries are armed with nuclear weapons , and foolish enough to use them, with all its consequences...

At the moment one can say that India has implemented the very same solution because they had their military in place, sent 38000 additional troops, locked up Kashmiris in curfew and bulldozed the houses of Parliament owing to their majority in Lok Sabha and de facto majority in Raj Sabha.

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• Huge sums of money spent on defence, both on Indian side and Pakistani side, which could be used for economic uplift of both countries.

It is true but in the present moment of crisis this angle is not relevant.
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•Kashmir issue has created such a hostile environment between the two countries that practically India and Pakistan have no trade relations with each other while both can be very good trading partners.

Kashmir issue can not be singled out. Partition came with all the acrimony between India and Pakistan.

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• Those who count in Pakistan, knows fully well that the current movement in Kashmir is NOT for annexation with Pakistan BUT for an ‘independent’ state of Kashmir...and, that independent Kashmir have a historical claim on GILGAT-BALTISTAN. In such an eventuality India will loss its part of Kashmir but Pakistan will also loss not only Azad Kashmir but Gilgat Baltistan as well. India itself may fight the case of Kashmiri claim on Gilgat on international stage, and so will others....

(I am all for the people of Kashmir. If they want an independent state, so be it, if they can prove their claim on Gilgat baltistan, let Gilgat be theirs....but I don’t know about the mind of Pakistani establishment.)

It is upto the Kashmiris to take a stand whether the issue is about Kashmiriyat or Islam. And this has implications that can be discussed.

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• Modi May not want to be in politics after his second term, same goes for Imran Khan.Both May not care about the negative political repercussions of accepting LOC as permanent border. Obviously hawks in both the countries would not accept such a solution and at least in Pakistan it will be considered betraying the country...only those can take such a risky position who do not anticipate a long political career.

I am sorry I am not interested in this issue because of Modi or Imran Khan. My interest is that Kashmir staying in India would increase percentage of Muslims in India. For that to happen I am not with those in India for whom Kashmir is an integral part of India without Kashmiris.
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Keeping all the above in mind, it looks ‘possible’ that despite all the public posturing ,the move might may be part of the ‘mediation process’.

At the ground level the Saffron powers that hold sway over whole of India today have solved the Kashmir problem in favour of India without taking the Kashmiris into confidence.

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In the end,I may be totally wrong and no such thing might be under consideration,in which case, we will have to try and find out how can ‘anybody’ mediate in Kashmir. The options are very limited :

1) India leaves Kashmir after a free and fair plebiscite under United Nations, and hand it over to Pakistan. Why would they do it ?

This does not look like a possibility at the moment.
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2)Pakistan conquers Kashmir, they would have loved to do it if they could...

At the moment power balance is not in its favour.
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3) India convincingly defeats Pakistan and take Pakistani part of Kashmir. Again wishful thinking for Indians if they think so...

The fact remains that India controls more of Kashmir than Pakistan and India has annexed it by force.
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4) A long and bloody struggle for Kashmiri people to win an independent state of their own. It is neither in the interest of India nor Pakistan, as pointed out earlier

A long struggle has been on for exactly thirty years by now in Kashmir and about a hundred thousand Muslims of Kashmir have sacrificed their lives and half of India army is engaged in that spot.
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5) keep the status co and keep fighting. Very foolish thing to do indeed...

The status quo so far has been changed by the recent move.
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As @sipraomere say, some ‘wise’ people may have decided to find a solution to this problem.

By wise guys he perhaps meant the seniors of MS like me. Muaz Khan has spoken. My opinion is included above. Implementation of any idea is an open question.

At the moment the Hindus have united in an unprecedented manner and any new status created by them can not be of permanent nature because that unity in India can not be permanent and the Muslim world is unlikely to accept their solution passively, at least in the long run.

This is all that is coming to my mind at the moment.
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#77 [Permalink] Posted on 10th August 2019 08:11
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JazakAllah Maripat.
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#78 [Permalink] Posted on 10th August 2019 08:38
Pankaj Chaturvedi's Post in Hindi

आरएसएस हमेशा अंग्रेजी हुकूमत का पिछलग्गू बना रहा। जब गांधी जी ने 1930 में नमक सत्याग्रह शुरू किया, तो हेडगेवार ने साफ कर दिया कि संघ का इस विरोध से कोई लेना-देना नहीं है।
जब गांधीजी ने भारत छोड़ो आंदोलन शुरू किया तो आरएसएस के नेताओं ने गृह विभाग के सचिव से मुलाकात की और ‘सचिव से वादा किया कि वे संघ के सदस्यों को अधिक से अधिक संख्या में सिविक गार्ड में शामिल होने के लिए प्रोत्साहित करेंगे।’ ब्रिटिश राज की बॉम्बे सरकार के एक ज्ञापन में आरएसएस के बारे में यह उल्लेख किया गया कि - ‘‘संघ ने खुद को कानून के दायरे में रखा, और विशेष रूप से, अगस्त 1942 में हुई गड़बड़ी में शामिल होने से बचा है।’’ इतना ही नहीं, आरएसएस के दूसरे प्रमुख एमएस गोलवलकर ने आरएसएस के उन सदस्यों की आलोचना की जिन्होंने स्वतंत्रता आंदोलन में शामिल होने की इच्छा जताई।
आरएसएस के दूसरे प्रमुख एमएस गोलवलकर ने 24 मार्च, 1936 को आरएसएस प्रचारक कृष्णराव वाडेकर को एक चिठ्ठी लिखी, जिसमें लिखा - “क्षणिक उत्साह और भावनात्मक उद्वेलन से पैदा हुये कार्यक्रमों से संघ को दूर रहना चाहिये।” उनकी नजर में आजादी की लड़ाई एक “क्षणिक उत्साह” था।
गोलवलकर यहीं नहीं रुकते। वो आगे कहते हैं - "इस तरह से अंग्रेजी शासन को उखाड़ फेंकने की कोशिश 'सतही राष्ट्रवाद' है।" इस चिठ्ठी में वो वाडेकर को ताकीद करते हैं कि वो धूले जलगांव इलाके में संघ की शाखा स्थापित करने पर ध्यान दें। गोलवलकर ने ये माना कि आरएसएस कार्यकर्ताओं के मन में भी भारी ऊहापोह था। इनमें से कई भारत छोड़ो आंदोलन में भाग लेना चाहते थे। पर गोलवलकर ने संघ कार्यकर्ताओं को ऐसी किसी भी मुहिम या आंदोलन का हिस्सा बनने से मना कर दिया।

गोलवलकर ने लिखा है -"1942 में बहुत सारे संघ कार्यकर्ताओं के दिल में भावनायें उछाल मार रही थी। फिर भी, उस समय, संघ का काम निर्बाध चलता रहा। संघ ने कसम खाई थी कि वो सीधे (आंदोलन में) हिस्सा नहीं लेगा। इसके बावजूद संघ स्वयंसेवकों के दिमाग में भारी उथल-पुथल मची रही।

गोलवलकर के इन शब्दों से साफ है कि ढेरों स्वयंसेवकों का मन आजादी की लड़ाई में हिस्सा लेने के लिये मचल रहा था। उनमें देशप्रेम की भावना हिलोरें मार रही थी पर संघ नेतृत्व हिस्सा न लेने पर अड़ा रहा। यही नहीं संघ ने यहां तक कहा कि आजादी की लड़ाई की वजह से देश और समाज पर उलटा असर पड़ा।
सरदार भगत सिंह और साथियों के बारे में भी संघ अच्छी भावना नहीं रखता था .गोलवलकर कहते हैं- "निश्चित तौर पर संघर्ष का गलत नतीजा निकलेगा। 1920-21 के आंदोलन के बाद लड़के उच्छृंखल हो गये। मेरा मतलब नेताओं पर कीचड़ उछालना नहीं है। ऐसा होना स्वाभाविक है। 1942 के बाद लोगों ने सोचना शुरू कर दिया कि कानून पालन करने का कोई मतलब नहीं है। आज की पीढ़ी को ये जानकर आश्चर्य होगा कि आरएसएस ने महान स्वतंत्रता सेनानियों के बलिदान को भी काफी हल्के में लिया। गोलवलकर की नजर में भगत सिंह और चंद्रशेखर की कुर्बानी असफलता का प्रतीक है। वो लिखते हैं, "हमारे आराध्य पुरूष श्री राम जैसे सफल लोग हैं। जो जीवन में असफल रहे उनमें जरूर कोई न कोई गंभीर दोष रहा होगा। वो जो परास्त है वो समाज को रोशनी कैसे दिखा सकता है, दूसरों को कैसे कामयाब बना सकता है।
"करो या मरो" के उदघोष के साथ आज़ादी के सबसे बड़े आंदोलन ९ अगस्त १९४२ के भारत छोडो संघर्ष के समय जनसंघ के संस्थापक और उस समय हिंदू महासभा के प्रधान श्यामा प्रसाद मुखर्जी ने 26 जुलाई, 1942 को गवर्नर को आधिकारिक तौर पर लिखा था- “सवाल ये है कि बंगाल में भारत छोड़ो आंदोलन का सामना कैसे किया जाये? प्रशासन को इस तरह से चलाया जाये कि कांग्रेस की भरसक कोशिश के बाद भी ये आंदोलन बंगाल में अपनी जड़ें न जमा पाये, असफल हो जाये. ... भारतीयों को ब्रिटिशर्स पर यकीन करना होगा, ब्रिटेन के लिये नहीं, या इससे ब्रिटेन को कोई फायदा होगा, बल्कि बंगाल राज्य की सुरक्षा और स्वतंत्रता के लिये.”
याद रहे 1942 में हिंदू महासभा ने बंगाल में जिन्ना की मुस्लिम लीग के साथ मिलकर सरकार बनाई थी. लीग के फजल-उल-हक तब मुख्यमंत्री थे. श्यामा प्रसाद मुखर्जी इस सरकार में उपमुख्यमंत्री थे. जैसे-जैसे आजादी की लड़ाई परवान चढ़ती गई, बंगाल की लीग-महासभा की संविद सरकार का जुल्म बढ़ता गया.
यह सवाल जरुर पूछें उनसे, जो आज देश में अवाल उठाने वाले हर शख्स को देश द्रोही कहते हैं, उनकी आंख में नख अल कर तथ्य पूछें कि आपका तो स्ली रंग ऐसा रहा असल में ९ अगस्त आज़ादी के जश्न का महत्वपूर्ण पायदान है
जय हिंद

(Please use Google for Hindi to English translation)

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#79 [Permalink] Posted on 10th August 2019 08:39
Shah Faisal's Views


Shah Faesal update :

"Kashmir is experiencing an unprecedented lock-down. From Zero Bridge to Airport some movement of vehicles is visible. Other places are completely out of bounds. Except for patients or those with a curfew pass.

It was not possible to reach Omar Abdullah, Mehbooba Mufti, Sajad Lone or send a message to them.

In other Districts curfew is all the more strict. You can say that the entire 8 million population has been incarcerated like never before.

As of now there is no shortage of food and essentials.

My sources in Administration told me that Sat Phones given to officers are being used to coordinate the civil supplies. No other means of communication is available.

Those with Dish TV have access to news. Cable services are down. Many people still have a bleak idea of what happened. Radio was working till a few hours ago. Most people are watching DD.

National media is also not being allowed to move into interior areas.

LD hospital is functioning beyond its capacity as expecting women are getting admitted days in advance to avoid any last moment hassels. Some people are planning to run langars there.

No violent incident has been officially reported so far. Random incidents of stone throwing were reported from Rambagh, Natipora, Downtown, Kulgam, Anantnag. But no news of any killings.

People are in shock. Numb. Yet to make sense of what befell them. Everyone is mourning what we lost.

In my conversations with people besides 370, it's the loss of statehood that has hurt people deeply. This is being seen as the biggest betrayal by the Indian state in last 70 years.

Few leaders who have escaped detention called for calm through TV channels. It is being said that the government is ready for a casualty figure of 8 - 10 thousand. So sanity demands that we don't give anyone a chance for mass massacre.

My appeal has also been that let's stay alive, then we shall fight back.

The body language of forces personnel manning the nakas is extremely harsh. JKP is totally sidelined.

One guy told an acquaintance of mine that now we are going to show your place to you.

Such stories of locals being bullied have reached me from many places. But its extremely heartening that Kashmiris are staying calm.

Those who wish to travel to Kashmir should avoid doing it for some time.

Even if the curfew is relaxed the situation will remain extremely volatile.

At airport I met crowds of heartbroken youth asking me questions about what should we do now.

I said we shall go to Supreme Court together and ask for reversing this injustice.

All political parties are together on challenging these unconstitutional laws that have deprived us of our history and identity.

As of now that's the only hope. International community has shut its eyes. So I am not expecting anything from there.

The sad fact of life is that only Narendra Modi and Amit Shah can one day give back to us the wealth that has been stolen from us in broad day light.

But then what's lost has been lost. Or Perhaps everything has been lost. Except our resolve to fight back. And we shall."

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#80 [Permalink] Posted on 10th August 2019 09:47
UAE is Sick


UAE supports Indian action removing Article 370 of Indian Constitution that gave Kashmir a special status.

Earlier UAE was among those countries who congratulated the Indian Prime Minister for winning Indian election.

Late Dr Israr Ahmed had said that worst western society has been created in UAE.

It is clear that UAE takes sadistic pleasure in actions that would irk Muslim sensibilities.
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#81 [Permalink] Posted on 10th August 2019 09:52
It is clear that Kashmir has been annexed.
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#82 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2019 03:56
The Solution:

Pakistan has to do nothing. Keep her army at the border and ready. Introduce a new regiment in the army called "Martyr Bombers" and give free hand to Jihadi organizations. If International Community pressurizes Pakistan that it is exporting terrorism then Pakistan can reply back that India is doing state terrorism for which we need a response. You resolve the problem and we will hold "our terrorists" back. You don't resolve the problem and we have no control over them. Pakistan doesn't have to officially do A'lan e Jihad (Declare Jihad). She only has to give madaris and jihadi organizations a green signal and use them the way she used them in Afghan-Soviet war. She doesn't need to equip the mujahideen with weapons. Only allow them to campaign for financial support in the public. She must ban NGO funded private channels. Instead of promoting jihad through media, if she only stops propaganda against jihad then that would be enough. At state level, Pakistan must remain passive while allowing mujahideen to adopt aggressive approach. As a secular state, Pakistan has no other option but to bleed Indian Army in Kashmir and else where through mujahideen. This is because if Pakistan remains aloof while Kashmir burns then Pakistan will not have to wait long before India attacks Pakistani Kashmir and then the rest of the country.

I don't know whether I should say Eid Mubarak or not. So rather remain silent.
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#83 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2019 10:02
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Yes, that is the only ‘practical’ option, the rest is diplomatic non-sense...

This too will ultimately lead to an all out war, but let it be...
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#84 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2019 10:17
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This too will ultimately lead to an all out war, but let it be...


Ghazwa e Hind is inevitable. However, with this practical option adopted, we will be prepared more for the upcoming war.
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#85 [Permalink] Posted on 12th August 2019 13:37
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Ghazwa e hind is clearly in the times of Syedena Mahdi, for that to happen we will have to wait for an unspecified time...

Other, less documented wars can still be fought and won IA.

If Pakistan is expecting that Kashmiri,s will do all the hard work for them, and let them eat the fruits, they are mistaken. Pakistan will have to give its share in terms of sacrifices or else the valiant people of Kashmir may get disappointed with them, and go for other options instead...
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#86 [Permalink] Posted on 13th August 2019 03:00
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and go for other options instead...


You mean Independent Kashmir?

No worries if that is possible. Pakistan can't handle the regions already controlled by her. What benefit will it get from another piece of land?

I am not sure about Ghazwa e Hind. Can't it begin before the arrival of Imam Mahdi? What made you think that it will only happen when Imam Mahdi arrives. It's a possibility that it begins and after that Imam Mahdi arrives. After all, there would already be a big world war against Muslims and he will arrive when the war will already be started and Muslims will be getting lashed by the kuffar. So if Muslims around the world are being beaten already collectively, do you think that India will wait for Imam Mahdi's arrival in order to start Ghazwa e Hind?
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#87 [Permalink] Posted on 13th August 2019 09:29
You have a point :)

I have no evidence, it is only my perception, which can be wrong !

I have a feeling that Pakistan will not go to war on Kashmir. It is also my feeling that if Pakistan don’t go for overt or covert military action,India will do it in azad Kashmir and northern areas, so no escape from war....

I have no good feelings left in me for the present government, they are gradually getting exposed and they are not ‘serious enough’ about Kashmir. If they could they would linger on with diplomatic rhetoric for a month or two,and gradually new events would catch the attention of people. Kashmir would become a forgotten story as for as Pakistan is concerned.

Their intentions may superficially look ‘realistic’. According to them, as there is no military solution to the issue, and Pakistan don’t have enough diplomatic support for its claim on Kashmir , let both India and Pakistan ‘accept’ the ground realities. They might have got ‘international guarantees’ that the parties concerned will not try to change the status quo....

In my opinion that was the real meaning of ‘mediation’ by trump :(

It is only that both parties have ignored the resilient struggle of Kashmiri people, and Pakistan is underestimating the ‘Nazi like mentality’ of Modi and RSS.

Pakistan May forget IOC but Modi will not forget POC and the geographically very important region of northern areas.

A possible new ‘frontline’ for wars in the region.

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#88 [Permalink] Posted on 13th August 2019 14:17
Even if there were people in the Pakistan government willing to actually do something other than talk, offer prayers or curse India for the Kashmiris, they wouldn't be able to. The reason that "there is no military solution to Kashmir" is because our faasiq military is worthless. It is good for nothing other than housing schemes. The top echelons of the government and military already knew that, it's only the dumb people of Pakistan that fall for the relentless patriotic propaganda that makes it seem India is being kept at bay because of our "world-class" military.

The entire Abhinandan episode was a test for India to see that whether the Pakistani military is really as ready for a conflict as they say or if it's all just talk. Letting the pilot go was enough of a proof that the Pak military is scared of a war and would do anything to avoid it. And all that talk about Ghazwa-e-Hind is just that, talk. They are in no position to fight any kind of Jihad.
Killing the pilot would have sent the appropriate message to the Hindus. Sure, the world would have labeled us savages, barbarians, etc, but that's exactly what your enemies should think you are. So that they think twice before starting a war with you. Now though, everyone knows that the Pakistani government and military are just a bunch of cowards, too scared to do what it takes to win.

I am also sure that this annexation was not thought up by India alone. This has the Jews' signature all over it. They are making a play for this region finally after waiting for so long because now they finally have complete control of the most powerful military and economic entity in the world.
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#89 [Permalink] Posted on 13th August 2019 14:53
The Feb. episode exposed the myth of Indian army more than that of Pakistan. They are a useless junk for modern wars...

Pakistan army today, is indeed a better organised, battle hardened army, but war is not only ‘fighting’ , a lot more is required in terms of finances. That is the weakness of Pakistan....
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#90 [Permalink] Posted on 13th August 2019 15:13
At least the Indian military is mentally ready. They are showing that they are not afraid to start a conflict. That's where a major part of the war has already been won by them. While the Pakistani military only reacts and that also in the most cowardly way possible. It has emboldened the enemies by sending them the message that we will do anything to avoid conflict.

If India eventually ends up attacking Pak, it will be because of this show of weakness from Pak. The Feb. episode only revealed about their air force. In conventional weaponry India is still far ahead of Pakistan. Not to mention that in case of war, India will have the US and Israel as its allies. Infact, Israel is eager for this conflict to happen. India is the convenient proxy that is available to them.
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