Create an account
Most Reputable Members

Haraam for Male Teachers to Teach Girls 6+ Years in Age - Maulana A.S. Desai

You have contributed 5.4% of this topic

Thread Tools
Post New Topic Locked Filter by poster  
Topic Appreciation
Appreciate
The following members appreciate this topic: Maria al-Qibtiyya, Naqshband66, Taalibah, abu mohammed, member2, Akaabir, samah
Arslan.
Rank Image
Arslan.'s avatar
Joined:
2nd Jan 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
909
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
31
#1 [Permalink] Posted on 31st May 2014 01:32
(salaam)

(bism1)

SEXUAL MOLESTATION OF LITTLE GIRLS
THE CONSEQUENCE OF SCORNFUL KUFR REJECTION OF THE SHARIAH


[Maulana A S Desai]


The Star newspaper in its edition dated 23 April 2014 under a headline caption,MOSQUE PHOTO ABUSE, reported the vile episode of a Madrasah teacher in the town of Evaton having subjected little girls to acts of sexual molestation on a frequent basis. The matter has been reported to the police who are investigating.

According to the Shariah, the parents of little girls attending the Madrasah need to be investigated for their gross dereliction of their Islamic duties and obligation, and for casting their little girls into the den of maniacal wolves. These reckless parents should now parley with their souls the demise of the hayaa and innocence of their little girls whom Allah Azza Wa Jal has bestowed as a sacred Amaanat in their custody. These little children are Allah's property which He has assigned temporarily to the custody and care of parents. Along with the assignment of this Amaanat, Allah Ta'ala has, via His inviolable Shariah, attached many rights and obligations to the children and on parents respectively.

One of the sacred rights which the Shariah has awarded to a little girl is that her parents must ensure that she is treasured more than what a person treasures gold, silver and valuables. This sacred right, according to the Shariah, entails that once the girl attains the age of six years, she has to be completely secluded from males. Scornfully rejecting this divine command, parents recklessly entrust their little girls to scoundrel male teachers in whose shaitaani suhbat (satanic company) the little girls are thrust for hours on end.

Merely to satisfy their worldly cravings and their inordinate pursuit of mundane objectives, parents, especially mothers, renounce their Shar'i responsibilities with their wanton abandonment of the care of children, which Allah Ta'ala has obligated them. While mothers engross themselves in their haraam worldly pursuits, their little girls are being abused in the care of scoundrels operating under religious garb and guise.

Not so long ago, a shaitaan in Port Elizabeth who was supposed to be a Madrasah teacher, had perpetrated acts of sexual molestation on a multiple of little girls who were entrusted to his care. This kind of satanic misdemeanour is happening widely. Occasionally when the haraam shaitaani philandering of the teacher comes to light, the parents of the children who were the victims of the devil, crow much. They stupidly express 'shock' and 'revulsion'. But they fail to understand that they are just as guilty as the scoundrel who had perpetrated the villainy, for they had allowed it to happen. They had paved the path for the ruin of their little girls.

It is HARAAM for a male to teach girls of six years and over even if the teacher has the countenance of a Buzrug. Shaitaan and the Nafs are the constant companions of even Buzrugs. Even Buzrugs may not be trusted with females and little girls. When the Shariah is recklessly, flagrantly and scornfully violated, the haemorrhaging consequences should be accepted without a murmur of surprise or shock. Allah Ta'ala punishes severely those who recklessly rebel against His Commands.

Leave alone kuffaar secular school, a girl may not be assigned to even a Madrasah where she will be under the tutelage of a male teacher. Nafsaaniyat and shaitaaniyat are always latent in a male. In a moment of ghaflat, a man drops his spiritual guard, and even the Buzrug is instantly transformed into a jaahil scoundrel with the greater part of his Aql becoming inoperative. Imaam Ghazaali (rahmatullah alayh) said that when the sexual instinct in man overwhelms him, the consequence of which is haraam involvement with females, 80% of his brain cells cease to function.

Don't parents shame themselves for entrusting their little innocent girls to male teachers? Have they no regard for the responsibilities Allah Ta'ala has imposed on them regarding the care of their children? Yes, precisely because they lack shame and because they have abandoned their responsibilities, is the calamity of the violation of the innocence of their little girls imposed on them as a divine punishment.

It is the Waajib obligation of parents to ensure that their girls are taught by only female teachers. If a female teacher is not available, keep your daughters at home and devote some time to teach them within the sacred precincts of your home. Don't shove them into the streets to be ambushed by the agents of Iblees. Then after Iblees has committed his acts of heinous notoriety, you want to blame the devil for having done his job.

When the evil comes to light, then excoriating the scoundrel in no way exculpates the parents who are Islamically complicit and culpable with the male teacher who had perpetrated his lustful villainy on the children.

REMEMBER THAT IT IS HARAAM FOR MALES TO TEACH GIRLS OF SIX YEARS. WHAT THEN SHOULD BE THE REACTION WHEN MALE USTAADHS TEACH BAALIGH AND MURAAHIQ (CLOSE TO BULOOGH) GIRSL? MAY ALLAH TA'ALA BESTOW AQL-E-SALEEM TO MUSLIMS WHO HAVE BEEN TORN FROM THEIR IMAANI MOORINGS.

27 Jamadiyuth Thaani 1435 - 28 April 2014
________________________________________________________________________________

Source: reliablefatwas.com/haraam-male-teachers-teach-girls-6-yea...
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
Winner x 3
Site Support
Please DONATE generously towards Muftisays

We spend hundreds of hours ensuring you receive a quality service from this site. We do not fall into the advertisement schemes as all the ads contain elements of Haraam including Haraam Islamic links. Please consider setting up a £1 monthly donation. May Allah (swt) reward you.

Maria al-Qibtiyya
Rank Image
Maria al-Qibtiyya's avatar
Joined:
14th Oct 2013
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
620
Gender:
Sister
Reputation:
179
#2 [Permalink] Posted on 31st May 2014 02:50
I didn't know that it's haram to learn from a male teacher wajib to learn from females, I thought in Hijab it's allowed.

In my academy there's a male teacher but he is much older, even than my father. But I guess the same rules would be applied here.

report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
Arslan.
Rank Image
Arslan.'s avatar
Joined:
2nd Jan 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
909
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
31
#3 [Permalink] Posted on 31st May 2014 03:18
Respected sister Maria,

Maulana Sahib has issued this fatwa according to the norms of the times. We are living in times where najs, filth, and zina are constantly surrounding us in the forms of movies, shows, advertisements, billboards, literature and educational institutes. So it is no surprise that such heinous and shaytaani crimes have become so commonplace. Due to the atrocious condition of the present-day ummah, Mufti Sahib has issued this fatwa.

Take the example of women going to the masjid. In the time of Rasulullah (s.a.w.) it was perfectly okay for women to go to the mosque for salah. However, later on the sahabah prohibited this due to the increase in fitna. This explains the current position of the Hanafi madhab being that it is makruh tahrimi for women to attend the mosque.

A better example is the issue of Hurmat-e-Musaharah. You may remember some of the fataawa of Maulana that I posted on THIS thread back in SF. To the average, unaware Muslim, these fataawa may seem a bit extreme. But in reality, these kinds of abhorrent crimes are being committed more frequently than ever before. Hence the `ulamaa' have placed certain conditions even when it comes to Mahrams, lest hurmat apply and the entire family be torn apart.

A young mother-in-law being in seclusion or traveling alone with a young son-in-law may have been more acceptable during the time of the sahaabah. But such acts have been declared impermissible by the fuqahaa because of the extent to which immorality and shameless have penetrated into modern society.

Rulings can change with time. In the present-day, we need to be more careful than ever, especially when it comes to our kids.

May Allah protect us and our children. Ameen.
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 3
Winner x 3
Maria al-Qibtiyya
Rank Image
Maria al-Qibtiyya's avatar
Joined:
14th Oct 2013
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
620
Gender:
Sister
Reputation:
179
#4 [Permalink] Posted on 31st May 2014 03:56
Arslan. wrote:
View original post


I understand it. Jazakallahu khairan.

Ameen to the dua.

report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 2
Arslan.
Rank Image
Arslan.'s avatar
Joined:
2nd Jan 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
909
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
31
#5 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd June 2014 14:29
(bism1)

Response from Mufti A.S. Desai
-----------------------------------------------

As-salaamu `alaykum

Hadhrat Maulana, recently you wrote a fatwa stating that "It is HARAAM for a male to teach girls of six years and over even if the teacher has the countenance of a Buzrug." When I had posted this fatwa for the benefit of others, a brother objected to the following two specifics of your fatwa:

1. Setting a minimum age (6 years)
2. Declaring an act which crosses the "set limit" to be Haraam

The brother wishes to know the daleel for specific age limit you mentioned, and why you declared it to be haram if this age limit is violated. The brother also points out that there are many `ulamaa' around the world who teach females 6.5 years or older.

Also, will it only be haraam if the teacher and the female are in khalwa, or will it be haraam regardless of whether they are in seclusion or not? Im asking because khalwa with a female becomes impermissible at the age 7 in the Shafi'i madhab, and I figured the opinion of the Hanafi madhab must be 6 years. Please clarify.

Hadhrat, I do not doubt your fatwa, but am only seeking clarification on behalf of myself, and behalf of the doubts a brother is having. I would appreciate if you could respond to this insha'Allah.

jazaakAllah

wassalaam.

---

ASSALAMU ALAIKUM

4 Sha'baan 1435 (3 June 2014)

Arslan Sana

Your e-mail dated 2 June 2014 refers.

The brother should be more concerned about the rising incidence of sexual molestation of little girls perpetrated by even so-called 'ulama' and madrasah teachers. He should direct his concern to the evil the teachers are perpetrating with regard to the little girls.

But shaitaan has diverted his mind from the disease and focused it on peripheral issues so as to conceal the real problem.

The age limit has been mentioned by Hadhrat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (rahmatullah alayh). We regard him as a Mujaddid and his word has the force of the Deen.

Many Ulama teaching girls does not make this halaal. In fact, this is the precise problem. Many teach the girls and many indulge in sexual molestation of the girls they are supposed to teach. The brother is ignorant of the disease and reality of which we are aware. In fact, we should say that it is haraam for males to teach even four year old girls.

It is so obvious that it is haraam for a man and woman to be in khalwat even if he is the teacher and the female is a little girl. Shaitaan flows in man like blood flows in the veins. On issues of this nature, the reality must be taken into account. If we see that teachers are molesting even 5 year old girls, then we should not be fossilized in our thinking and say that the age limit is 7 years. If a teacher molests a man's 4 year old daughter, will he accept the 7 year limit?

The fatwa will hinge on the reality of the prevalent situation.

Was-salaam

A.S. Desai

For

Mujlisul Ulama of S.A.
report post quote code quick quote reply
Winner x 2
Yasin
Yasin's avatar
Joined:
9th Sep 2004
Longevity:
100%
Location:
London, UK
Posts:
5280
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
191
#6 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd June 2014 15:17
Assalamu Alaykum,

I don't usually do this but I feel it's necessary here.

The question was posed very well above. However, no answers were given except for the age of 6 being sourced to Mualana Ashraf Ali Thanwi but no clarification of the context of the age restriction.

While my opinion is the same, as well as many other Ulamaa, that male teachers should not teacher girls above the age of 6, the answer above actually raises more disputes on his grounds.

Quote:
The brother should be more concerned about the rising incidence of sexual molestation of little girls perpetrated by even so-called 'ulama' and madrasah teachers. He should direct his concern to the evil the teachers are perpetrating with regard to the little girls.


Emails are used to hide age, identity, personality and even gender (where people can easily act like the opposite gender for wrong intentions). There have been news reports about vile and indecent acts carried out due to the lies initiated by email. Does this make "email" as an entirety Haraam?

With the concern quotes above, should the act itself not be targeted rather than issuing Haraam to such a common and old practise without conditions?

To confirm once again, I am not refuting the Fatwa. In fact, my opinion has always been the same in this matter. To me as well as some of my teachers, the clear distinction was interaction. It's interaction that causes Fitnah. If a teacher simply lectures without any interactions (interactions such as homework assignments, comments feedback etc) then there's no stepping stone for Fitnah.

Similarly, providing an answer via email is also a form of teaching and if Mufti Sahib replies to girls older than 6 then is he not committing the very act he's declared Haram?

You are free to send this to him with the source including my name because clarification of Muadh's original (100% valid) question is very very important as "It's HARAM" is too strong for any laymen to grasp let alone simply understand. Not to mention the fact that almost all Madaaris in UK are committing Haram according to this very general statement.

Jazakallah
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 4
Arslan.
Rank Image
Arslan.'s avatar
Joined:
2nd Jan 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
909
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
31
#7 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd June 2014 15:40
Yasin wrote:
Similarly, providing an answer via email is also a form of teaching and if Mufti Sahib replies to girls older than 6 then is he not committing the very act he's declared Haram?


wa `alaykum-as-salaam.

Maulana, I think you may be missing the point. The issue here isn't the "teaching' aspect. The issue is the male to female interaction that goes on in khalwa while teaching. Replying to the opposite genders e-mail is definitely not the same as physically being with them in seclusion (i.e. same room, door closed etc...). I think your statement above was a bit of a stretch.

Please clarify your point regarding e-mails if im missing something.

What the rest of the madaaris are doing cannot be used as a proof in the Shari'ah, in the same way that inappropriate male-female interaction during Hajj in the precincts of the haram cannot be used as a proof for the permissibility of inappropriate male-female interaction, though this grave sin occurs by the thousands in the most sacred of all places and during the most sacred of all times.

JazaakAllah for your post. Its nice to know that you hold the same opinion.
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 3
Yasin
Yasin's avatar
Joined:
9th Sep 2004
Longevity:
100%
Location:
London, UK
Posts:
5280
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
191
#8 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd June 2014 16:11
Asrlan. wrote:
Maulana, I think you may be missing the point. The issue here isn't the "teaching' aspect. The issue is the male to female interaction that goes on in khalwa while teaching. Replying to the opposite genders e-mail is definitely not the same as physically being with them in seclusion (i.e. same room, door closed etc...). I think your statement above was a bit of a stretch.


I don't see that condition in Mufti Sahib's ruling.

Quote:
It is HARAAM for a male to teach girls of six years and over even if the teacher has the countenance of a Buzrug. Shaitaan and the Nafs are the constant companions of even Buzrugs. Even Buzrugs may not be trusted with females and little girls. When the Shariah is recklessly, flagrantly and scornfully violated, the haemorrhaging consequences should be accepted without a murmur of surprise or shock. Allah Ta'ala punishes severely those who recklessly rebel against His Commands.


Please re-read my post to see the actual point I'm raising. Jazakallah
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Yasin
Yasin's avatar
Joined:
9th Sep 2004
Longevity:
100%
Location:
London, UK
Posts:
5280
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
191
#9 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd June 2014 16:13
Quote:
What the rest of the madaaris are doing cannot be used as a proof in the Shari'ah, in the same way that inappropriate male-female interaction during Hajj in the precincts of the haram cannot be used as a proof for the permissibility of inappropriate male-female interaction, though this grave sin occurs by the thousands in the most sacred of all places and during the most sacred of all times.


Also, I request you not to put words and meanings into my posts that aren't there. Jazakallah
report post quote code quick quote reply
No post ratings
Arslan.
Rank Image
Arslan.'s avatar
Joined:
2nd Jan 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
909
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
31
#10 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd June 2014 16:32
Yasin wrote:
I don't see that condition in Mufti Sahib's ruling.


The condition is clear in the context of the fatwa. Sexual molestation of little girls can only take place in khalwa. No one molests a child in open view of others. I think this much we can agree on.

This is why hadhrat mentioned the following in his response e-mail:

Quote:
It is so obvious that it is haraam for a man and woman to be in khalwat even if he is the teacher and the female is a little girl.


Now if the father was alongside his little daughter while she was being taught by a male teacher, that would not fall under this prohibition.

Maulana, you mentioned that you and your teachers hold this same view (age limit of 6). May I request that you post further evidence, either from yourself, or from the statements of your teachers, or from books that you or they possess? It would serve as further contribution to the thread. JazaakAllah.
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
Winner x 1
abu mohammed
Rank Image
abu mohammed's avatar
Joined:
6th Oct 2008
Longevity:
28%
Location:
London
Posts:
18641
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5095
#11 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd June 2014 16:46
Arslan. wrote:
View original post


I kind of disagree with these things only being done in private and you'll see why.


When I was small, I "heard" (doesn't mean my madrasah) of an ustad who would give examples to a class of girls and he would physically give examples of many issues and use the students as the example. I wont go into details, but for example, the ustad would teach how to perfom Wudhu using the students arms, face, feet etc and the list can go on.

This doesn't mean we don't accept/agree with the Fatwa. I guess its just a matter of how its going to be implemented all over the world. Maybe reclassify it with Makrooh, close to haram.

report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 2
Arslan.
Rank Image
Arslan.'s avatar
Joined:
2nd Jan 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
909
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
31
#12 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd June 2014 16:53
abu mohammed wrote:
View original post


JazaakAllah for your post.

The last line of your post brings me to another point which I think I should mention. No one has to accept this, but this is how I see it:

By "Haraam" mufti sahib may actually mean "makruh tahrimi". The reason he's not using the term "makruh" is because the awwaam tend to take matters lightly whenever they see the term "makruh". It is similar to when `ulamaa say cigarettes are "Haraam". What they actually mean is "Makruh" (tanzihi or tahrimi, difference of opinion here), but most of the awwaam will then take the prohibition lightly, while many will not even understand what the term means.

Again, no one has to take this explanation! The only way to confirm it would be to ask Mufti Sahib himself.

wallaahu a'lam.
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
Creative x 1
Yasin
Yasin's avatar
Joined:
9th Sep 2004
Longevity:
100%
Location:
London, UK
Posts:
5280
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
191
#13 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd June 2014 19:39
Quote:
The condition is clear in the context of the fatwa.


How is it clear? Why is it clear? Has it clearly been stated? Or are you assuming it to be clear according to your own personal understanding?

Quote:
Sexual molestation of little girls can only take place in khalwa. No one molests a child in open view of others. I think this much we can agree on.


Is this your own research? Your own understanding? Do you honestly without any doubt believe that it doesn't happen in front of other students or openly?

Quote:
This is why hadhrat mentioned the following in his response e-mail:
Quote:
It is so obvious that it is haraam for a man and woman to be in khalwat even if he is the teacher and the female is a little girl.


Who is denying this? Besides, a 6 year old is not a "woman"

Quote:
Now if the father was alongside his little daughter while she was being taught by a male teacher, that would not fall under this prohibition.


Again, who is denying or asking about this? Why are you commentating on Mufti Sahib's answer? The Fatwa is not a divine revelation that needs commentary or explanations. Why are you commentating and trying to explain to everyone what the context is, what he means by it, what it refers to?

Quote:
The only way to confirm it would be to ask Mufti Sahib himself.


Then why are you explaining his answer by adding your own views or understandings? Do you not notice yourself doing this? Why? The answer itself should provide this. Please refer back to my original post. Also, please do no state that I've misunderstood or taking things out of context because so far my concern was not addressed at the slightest.

If a response is not provided to what I actually asked (as you seem to keep stating things I'm not even talking about) then I will have to remove the Fatwa from the site as I have regularly been advised not to have such controversial rulings to be posted unless it's clear. This is not clear.

I will make it easy for you. Please do not divert away from the original concern I'm posting below:

1. Is it HARAAM to teach a girl 6 and above without any conditions or procedures?
2. Mufti Sahib did NOT state "Khalwat" in the paragraph that states it's HARAAM.
3. In the statement that Khalwat was mentioned, it merely states what every scholar in the world already agrees upon. That has nothing to do with age 6+


Quote:
Maulana, you mentioned that you and your teachers hold this same view (age limit of 6). May I request that you post further evidence, either from yourself, or from the statements of your teachers, or from books that you or they possess? It would serve as further contribution to the thread. JazaakAllah

No sorry, this is not for laymen to understand, comprehend or discuss. If a scholar wants the views I'll be happy to provide names and contact details. Jazakallah
report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 3
Arslan.
Rank Image
Arslan.'s avatar
Joined:
2nd Jan 2014
Longevity:
0%
Location:
Unspecified
Posts:
909
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
31
#14 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd June 2014 21:40
Yasin wrote:
1. Is it HARAAM to teach a girl 6 and above without any conditions or procedures?
2. Mufti Sahib did NOT state "Khalwat" in the paragraph that states it's HARAAM.
3. In the statement that Khalwat was mentioned, it merely states what every scholar in the world already agrees upon. That has nothing to do with age 6+


It seems the crux of your question is the following, "Would it still be haram if the teacher and little girl were NOT in khalwa?" i.e. "is it haram under any and all conditions?" Please correct me if im wrong.

I have said this in a previous post, that according to the context of the fatwa, and the additional e-mail I received, the hurmat happens due to khalwa. So NO, its not haram under any and all conditions, only if the teacher and girl are in khalwa. Thats why I gave the example of a father being with his daughter, while she was being taught by a male teacher.

Mufti Sahib said the following in his e-mail response:

Quote:
It is so obvious that it is haraam for a man and woman to be in khalwat even if he is the teacher and the female is a little girl.


So yes a woman is mentioned, but so is a little girl.

But I feel you will be more satisfied by a direct answer from Maulana A.S. Desai, so I have e-mailed him with your query. If he does not respond, then you can e-mail him directly insha'Allah. I am in no position to debate you. You asked for an answer, so I gave it. If you'd like an answer from Mufti Sahib or other muftiyan, we'll have to wait.

Just as an FYI, Im still waiting for replies from other muftiyan, so perhaps this issue can be cleared up a bit more insha'Allah.



report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 2
Muadh_Khan
Rank Image
Muadh_Khan's avatar
Offline
Joined:
1st Feb 2008
Longevity:
40%
Location:
UK
Posts:
7689
Gender:
Brother
Reputation:
5996
#15 [Permalink] Posted on 3rd June 2014 21:55

Arslan. wrote:
View original post

The attempt to clarify makes the matter as clear as String Theory and the issue of quark–gluon plasma as it is governed by quantum chromodynamics!

Jazakallahu Khayran for your time and effort.

Either you are being disingenuous or seriously naive to think that your conjecture on plethora of interchangeable terms (Haram to Makrooh Tahreemi) and listing every possible reason under the sun to try to muddle the issue and asking Maulana Yasin (HA) to help you illicit reasons for:

  1. Fatwa of Shaykh (Mufti) A. S. Desai (HA)
  2. Backed by xplaination and narrative commentary by your fertile and productive mind

This in your opinion explains limiting age to 6 and declaring it Haram (which your "conjecture" is actually Makrooh Tahreemi and not even Haram).

Here is the incident of a sexual assault on a 4 year old in Toronto so based on logic in the Fatwa Canadian Hanafi Fuquaha should now limit the age to 4 years old?

Sexual Assualt on a 7 week old baby girl so Hanafi Fuqaha should declare a Fatwa and restrict the age limit to 7 weeks?

What are we chasing news and issuing Fatwaas?

Yaar! Drop it really...I mean really drop it!

report post quote code quick quote reply
Like x 1
Dislike x 4
Winner x 1
Back to top Post New Topic Locked